Sequels strife

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Re: Sequels strife

by EnderSE15 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:53 am

Borgie wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:28 pm
 I have to say, I must give credit to all parties for finding a resolution. I myself am still sour towards Stardock. Paul is clearly a better person than I am, especially given the tone of their announcement. It will be some time before I can decide if I will buy any Stardock products. This resolution does make it easier to consider.
I'm still sour towards Stardock too, and am unlikely to buy any of their products any time soon - not least because Brad Wardell rather childishly blocked me on Twitter (he could have engaged, or simply ignored me, when I said I was unlikely to buy Origins because of the bullying of P&F by Stardock). That said, I sort of get the point (though I'm not sure Wardell ever explicity made it) that P&F have made practically zero progress on a sequel over 25 years, but wouldn't let anyone else use any of their IP to make anything else in the SC universe either.

Still, I'm glad it's resolved, and looking forward to GotP if P&F ever get around to making it. Meanwhile I'm rediscovering the Megamod version of SC2/UQM.

Re: Sequels strife

by Draxas » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:27 pm

Any of the races and other concepts from earlier SC lore that was used in 3, was used under license, which means that Fred and Paul maintain copyright and creative control over those elements. So if they should decide to do exactly what Legend did with those characters (however unlikely that might be), it should still be protected. But let's be real; there is no way they will go in the exact same direction with those plot points. Despite the happy ending, it was a long and hard battle to hash out who gets what in this SC custody battle. There is no earthly way that F & P will tempt fate by cribbing from SC3s playbook exactly, even if that may be similar to their original plans.

Re: Sequels strife

by krulle » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:53 am

Elestan wrote: ↑
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:28 am
I'm pretty sure that they already said in interviews that the Mycon were Precursor terraformers.
https://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Mycon#Notes_and_references wrote:From the 1998 IRC chat with Toys for Bob (Fwiffo is both Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III here):

<_Stilgar> <Etherea|> Fwiffo: Were the Mycon in your mind simply the insane fungus rewriting the memories of the sentient Deep Children like in SC3? They gave them a stupid religious fanatic look, IHO, which seemed too simple for the potential they had in SC2... what was your idea of the Mycon?
<Fwiffo> The Mycon were biological tools of the Precursors. They had been programmed for terraforming, but when the Precursors vanished, the Mycons were left unattended. Over the following millenia, their programs drifted, forming the worship of Juffo-Wup.
But, this interview is from after SC3 has been published......
But it seems to be derivable from in-game:
https://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Mycon#Notes_and_references wrote:In one of their ramblings, possibly repeating the words of the Creators, the Mycon say "...incorporation of dense amphibole fibers ensure survival in environmental extremes..."

Re: Sequels strife

by Elestan » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:28 am

Matthias wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:28 pm
Question. P&F have no access to SC3 copyrights right? What about story elements that cross over?
Unless the settlement changed things, P&F own the parts of SC3 that are derived from SC2, which would include such "cross over" elements.

I'm pretty sure that they already said in interviews that the Mycon were Precursor terraformers.

Re: Sequels strife

by Matthias » Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:28 pm

Question. P&F have no access to SC3 copyrights right? What about story elements that cross over?

For example, SC2 set up the Mycon as some kind of terraformer biots by some higher power, probably the Precursors. SC3 took that and ran with it.

What if the premise found in SC3, that they were indeed developed by the Precursors, was also P&F’s plan all along? Will they be able to incorporate that into the new story as they had always planned, or will they be forced to change it as it would infringe on SC3’s copyrighted story?

Re: Sequels strife

by Draxas » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:14 pm

Matthias wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:51 am
 This one part though strikes me as being vague enough to the point of potential problems:
We were able to come to a very specific understanding on the alien characters and races — how they look and act. Stardock is dropping all trademark registration of the alien names and won't use the described aliens without permission from Paul & Fred.
What I get out of that is that Stardock may continue to use some of P&F’s alien races as long as they’re different enough from what was described. This seems like it opens the door to possible future conflicts about what is “different enough.” I dunno?
I see this as being in reference to the Arilou, perhaps, who apparently already are present in Origins. But who knows? Since this is an amicable settlement, and the two sides will be collaborating with each other in at least a minor way now, they should be able to smooth over any problems like this before they become real problems (hopefully).

Honestly, this entire announcement is best case scenario as far as I can see. As much as I would have liked to see Brad eat some crow for this whole debacle, having both sides work out their differences in such a definitive manner, and then agree to help each other on future projects, is a win for everyone except the lawyers. Considering that this is proof that adding lawyers to any disagreement makes things objectively worse, (and that those lawyers have undoubtedly already billed both parties a small fortune) I will shed no tears for them.

Re: Sequels strife

by krulle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:37 pm

Borgie wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:28 pm
krulle wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:23 am
 now it sounds more like 7-8 years.
I've got some minor concern about the required "quiet" period. However, this doesn't mean they are unable to work on the project during this time, just likely no major announcements.
In my opinion, if it does take 8 years, then it takes 8 years.
I agree with these assessments, and add that the quiet period is likely to mean to not announce anything while Stardock is launching new episodes/games, to not hitchhike on those PR releases.... (because that was one of the things Brad Wardell complained about).
An announcement will/should only be allowable if release date is somewhat fixable (e.g. within a year). (my interpretation)

Re: Sequels strife

by Borgie » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:28 pm

Matthias wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:51 am
 What I get out of that is that Stardock may continue to use some of P&F’s alien races as long as they’re different enough from what was described. This seems like it opens the door to possible future conflicts about what is “different enough.” I dunno?
Always a concern, but that's also a summary of what's official. From everything I've read, keeping their characters was one of the key points for Paul. I would have to assume they went into more detail formally.

krulle wrote: ↑
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:23 am
 now it sounds more like 7-8 years.
I've got some minor concern about the required "quiet" period. However, this doesn't mean they are unable to work on the project during this time, just likely no major announcements.
In my opinion, if it does take 8 years, then it takes 8 years. Best to get it done right!


I have to say, I must give credit to all parties for finding a resolution. I myself am still sour towards Stardock. Paul is clearly a better person than I am, especially given the tone of their announcement. It will be some time before I can decide if I will buy any Stardock products. This resolution does make it easier to consider.

Re: Sequels strife

by krulle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:23 am

And you may have to find more years, but after the last 25, what are a few more years?
https://dogarandkazon.squarespace.com/blog/2019/6/11/the-only-way-to-win-is wrote:Paul and Fred will be changing the name "Ghosts of the Precursors" to something a little less generic -- (come on, you know we can do better!). The precise ‘when’ is unclear, but it is still several years off.
[highlighting by me]

I did not expect other than having to wait 3-4 years for GotP, but now it sounds more like 7-8 years.
Enough time to crank up expectations.... :p

Also: very happy the dispute is settled amicably, and if there's a passage about bees and honey and wine/mead exchanging hands, to the astonishment of attorneys, I'm all the more in favour.

Re: Sequels strife

by Matthias » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:52 am

Still. Today is such a jubilant day. I have been waiting 25ish years to find out what happened to the Androsynth and we are FINALLY getting it. Plus, the blog said they will make new gameS, plural, in the UQM universe, in contrast to an earlier report I saw about how P&F were planning to make this their retirement project. Words cannot begin to describe my excitement.

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