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 Post subject: Re: Still kicking. Kind of.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:15 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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“Leave it alone, Trog." I kept telling myself. "It doesn’t concern you. Why does it even matter? Who cares if Eth and Nuclear don’t get along anymore? What good could come out of it if you start meddling and try to play peacemaker?” These are the kind of things I kept telling myself over and over… but then I started examining the facts of the matter:

Fact #1: Even though we may at times try to kid ourselves, this is a very small community, which occupies a tiny nook tucked away in the furthest recesses of the interwebs. But it's our little nook gosh darnit!

Fact #2: Star Control is an extremely awesome game and anyone who thinks otherwise is out of their friggin’ minds! Wait! That should be fact#1!

Fact #3: As crazy as it may seem, because of fact#1 (revised fact#1, that is ;) ) as well as some brilliant and creative minds I’ve encountered here (including you 2 guys) I find it important to at least try to keep all of us sheep within the fold! I can’t help it. It’s what I do. Even when a few of the rams begin butting heads.

On that note, let me also preface that I have much admiration and the utmost respect for BOTH of you, which is why I am writing all of this stuff to begin with. I’ll also state for the record that I accept in advance that it may very well make no difference whatsoever. If that is the case, then so be it. But please, hear me out first, for I have much to say, and please try to also keep in mind that I will also be making some of my own conjectures based on my own opinions and observations of what I've read, many of which may be inaccurate, so I thought I’d go ahead and put all that out there before my “pseudopsychoanalysis” of written word inevitably ticks somebody off!

One final note: Sedodes, I apologize that your topic has become quite derailed, and my clear defiance of forum rules in this instance probably deserves some kind of reprimand, but I’ve noticed that the SCDB has become a bit like the wild, wild west of moderation (see revised fact#2), so I think I’ll chance it.

Whew! Now that that’s over with…let’s get down to brass tacks, shall we?

Eth wrote:
I don't come here much anymore. [...] I basically told Nuclear what I thought of him, resigned as mod, then blocked him. There wasn't much else left to do after that.

The resurfacing pique.

Nuclear wrote:
There was some political drama regarding video games earlier this year, and cultural Marxist ideology was starting to be injected into spaces where it doesn't belong. This forum and many others were starting to assume a political status quo, which I dissented against, and instead of being properly refuted I more often was outright attacked or even censored completely. Yes, I could have argued my points a bit {a lot} better, and I ended up being blocked by what seems like half the forum, but I have no regrets.

Eth {and friends}, I know you're not reading this, but I'm disappointed with your lack of emotional fortitude in the face of opinions you don't necessarily agree with. You were a moderator. You should know more than anyone that a plurality of opinion is essential to a proper and constructive discourse. The internet is not, and should never become, an ideological hugbox, and I'm saying this as a transgender person. "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Often times, expressing oneself lack of regrets drops a subtle hint that one’s angst may actually still be present, but that it's been dealt with, so there's no need for further contrition, since they've moved on, as you can see from this next response:

Nuclear wrote:
Eth, despite our past shenanigans, I hold absolutely no ill will towards you, and even look up to you in many ways. I remember how pathetic a socialite I was when I first joined the SCDB many years ago, and how it was yours and Luki's conditioning that made me the functioning internet conversationalist I am today. So, nothing would make me happier if we could put our political differences aside and mutually agree to collectivise based on our love of the retro computer game that brought us together in the first place.

The olive branch extended. The thought process appears to be one of "let bygones be bygones," but the notion of reconciliation was not reciprocated:

Eth wrote:
I will say this once, and that's it. I hold you in a great deal of ill-will. You've aligned yourself with an internet harassment movement that is ruining the games industry. You are the reason I quit being a mod here, and why I almost never visit anymore. This has nothing to do with political ideology, and everything to do with my desire to make games (and game design) a welcoming place for everyone, regardless of gender or race. Games have been the greatest good to me, and I want everyone to be able to experience that good. It's obvious that you don't understand how G*merg*te harms that goal, so there's nothing left for me to say to you.

Ah ha! The heart of the issue. The infamous topic of all things gamergating. Saria had no idea at the time how much of a hot button item of discussion was being thrown out there. I for one was never able to truly formulate an overall opinion on the matter. To be honest, it all seemed kind of vague and weird to me, but I guess it has a lot to do with how I don't understand much of the behind-the-scenes operations of game development and the people involved.

I think for the most part I feel the same way Eth does, since I am all about equality, fairness and acceptance, but I also don’t believe Nuclear thinks otherwise, but he has a tendency to deviate from the mainstream. I’m not sure if there was something else the Nuclear posted that was subsequently deleted, so either it returned or this one stuck:

Nuclear wrote:
Saria wrote:
Stardock's CEO Brad is a Gamergate supporter and has written an article on the issue. He's also did an interview at the Escapist. <br abp="929"><br abp="930">Does this negatively or positively impact your feelings on the next Star Control? I'm just curious about everyone's opinions. <br abp="931"><br abp="932">Bonus: the tweet that haunts my nightmares:<br abp="933">Image


Lol, "I will do pretty much anything". Let's hope Brad can keep his pants on this time, cause we all know what Zoe does to get her way. God damn, so first Anita Sarkeesian is allowed to join the Dev team of Mirror's Edge 2, and now Zoe Quinn wants to work on Star Control 2? I pray to Odin she's just joking. Imagine: the return of the hideously ugly Syreen, Utwig moodiness multiplied a thousand fold, Kzer-Za and Kohr-Ah conflict turned into a social justice war in which all the races of the galaxy are force to choose sides. I would not pay money for that game, that's for damn sure. Politics aside, Zoe simply isn't a game dev. Her resume is severely lacking in that the only "game" she constructed was a shitty choose your own adventure written in HTML, which is exactly what I did as a middle school programming project. I'm equally, if not more so qualified, to be brought on board that dev team, according to Zoe. Trust me, you do NOT want me on that Dev team lol.

Anybody who has done any level of extensive research on the Gamergate issue will inevitably join the Gamer's side. For those not aware, the goals of Gamergate include, among other things:

* A strict level of transparency and ethical standards in game journalism (The example here involves non gamer sites yes, but they are all owned by Gawker media, who also owns Kotaku, the biggest offender in Gamergate)

* The removal of political agendas and conflicts of interest from objective game reviews

* The treatment of women and minority groups as regular people and not political shields

* To stop the bullying, manipulation, and coercion of game Devs and journalists whom don't follow the proper political agenda

* To stop gaming websites from propagating the idea that all gamers are "Fat, smelly, white, cisgendered male Misogynists", or in one case, "Terrorists".

* To stop judges and game reviewers from sleeping with their own subjects.

* To stop the shameless censorship taking place on reddit and other websites involved with the issue, including this very forum perhaps. One of my posts related to Brad Wardell was actually deleted without any kind of notification or reason given.

* To stop the racketeering and rigged contests involving indie games

* To disband the game journalist cabal: http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/09 ... -the-list/

and most important

* To get game journalists and other personnel to fess up and admit their mistakes instead of trying to escalate the issue to an irrelevant social justice cause.

Then...the confession, followed swiftly by resignation:

Eth wrote:
Nuclear wrote:
* To stop the shameless censorship taking place on reddit and other websites involved with the issue, including this very forum perhaps. One of my posts related to Brad Wardell was actually deleted without any kind of notification or reason given.

Yeah, I did that. Sorry. It was in the heat of anger, but I probably shouldn't have done it.

To be fair, you have to admit that you're a complete moron.

So yeah, consider this to be my resignation as mod. I can't fucking stand this Gamergate bullshit, and moderating a forum where it's discussed is obviously beyond my capabilities. Good luck, kids.

Eth obviously had had enough. Nuclear sounded off on Zoë, completely disregarding the turmoil she must’ve endured during her ordeal, and his response showed an attitude of being spiteful and dismissive. I think even Nuclear would admit that he was acting flippant, but I don’t believe he wanted anything really bad to happen to her, but his dislike of her professionally was in poor taste along with bad timing.

Regardless, the last straw had been submitted to the camel. I can only surmise that the reason behind Eth’s knee-jerk response was due to how closely he was emotionally affected by this type of discussion, and Nuclear's post must have pressed one too many buttons. Clearly a passionate person who cares deeply about the gaming community and the manner in which game development is performed, Eth clearly felt this was something too near and dear to his heart to be trifled with. He makes Magic the Gathering cards (among other wonderful gaming contributions) for goodness sakes! Uber-awesome indeed.

I think perhaps to him the very notion that there are people out there that abuse, subjugate, bully, harass, manipulate and otherwise take advantage of other people in game dev based on gender, race or any other number of things is not only wrong, but the wrong-doings and coercion of fellow comrades in gaming is shameful. Period. End of discussion. To even mention anything to the contrary seemed to be very offensive in Eth's mind and affected his feelings about his position as mod. I'm not sure if removing somebody's post was right or not, but Nuclear didn't seem to object:

Nuclear wrote:
Eth wrote:
To be fair, you have to admit that you're a complete moron.

In hindsight, maybe it was best that you deleted it, to be frank. I was trying to discredit Kotaku with that post, but it wasn't Gamergate related; I was going through a phase at the time of questioning the tactics of all news media, due to being in a university philosophy class lol. I was unaware I was being a shit disturber though, I apologize Eth.

That big long post I wrote was going to be the ONLY major post I ever did about Gamergate. I may be a moron, but not a complete moron ;)-smf . This one topic has already destroyed hundreds of gamer communities already. I somewhat hesitantly recommend that this thread be locked {just a suggestion, I don't mean to backseat moderate}. I feel that a Gamergate discussion of any kind will just inevitably harm the board while generating no tangible discourse.

I'd rather not see you step down from moderatorship like Luki has, but I suppose that's solely up to you.

I don't mean to step in and pretend to be Nuke's defense attorney or anything, but one thing I've noticed about Nuclear is he's a very complex individual who has many layers. Compare some of his postings and you'll see that there's multiple sides to him. One moment he'll be delving into a serious discussion and he'll contribute links and his own diligent research on the subject. The next, he's casually making a snarky comment about the same topic without any regard or serious tone at all... which is usually coupled with some brief vulgarity to emphasize his point. He also has a knack for finding a way to play devil's advocate, if only to keep the conversation going.

I also realize I've been referring to you as "he" and "him" Nuclear -- I mean no offense, I know you mentioned being transgendered. I blame your avatar.

Eth wrote:
I apologize too. I shouldn't be hurling insults at people I don't know.

What I should have said was,

"I agree that people shouldn't bully each other. Brad Wardell shouldn't be bullied because someone accused him of something. Anita Sarkheesian shouldn't be bullied because she makes videos that question the status quo of video game content. (Aside, her videos are actually quite interesting and thought provoking. This one on the "damsel in distress" trope was neat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q) And Zoe Quinn shouldn't be bullied for, uh, having sex with another consenting adult?

"The idea of reforming 'gaming journalism' is unrealistic to me. We're not talking about hard-hitting journalists, shining the light of truth into the seedy underbelly of government and corporate malfeasance here. 'Gaming journalists' are largely either enthusiasts who do it because they love games, or are sponsored by companies with a financial incentive to publicize games. This is true of any niche hobby 'journalists.' It's true of video game journalists, it's true of dog breeding journalists, and it's true of bonsai journalists. Serious journalists aren't going to get involved in niche hobby writing, because niche hobbies aren't very important. As video games approach the level of Hollywood films in popularity, we can expect video game journalism to reach the 'heights of excellence' we see in Entertainment Weekly and TMZ. This generation's Woodward and Bernstein aren't going to write for Entertainment Weekly, and they're not going to write for The Escapist, either.

"The Gamergate 'movement,' such as it is, is really a loose coalition of various groups, including naive people concerned with ethics in 'journalism,' people who are afraid that feminists are going to force people to stop making the kind of games they like, people who don't want women or other minorities (I speak of minorities in the games industry) to have a voice, and anonymous channers who believe that anyone who promoted him- or herself on the internet has invited any and all attention, including doxxing, death threats, character assassination, harassment of family members and coworkers, etc.

"It's very hard for me to take seriously a group's claims that it just wants to improve the world, when those are the sorts of tactics it stoops to.

"It's very hard to have a reasonable discussion about the subject, when Zoe Quinn is apparently camping out in the bottom of an elevator shaft somewhere because people keep making very detailed and explicit threats against her. Threats which make it very clear that they have been to her neighborhood and cased her house. She's afraid for her life and for her family members' lives."

That's what I should have said.

I'm not interested in a debate or anything, I just wanted to lay it out there, why I got so mad.
I work in the games industry. Mostly tabletop, but some video game work. I believe that gaming as a whole (not "core gaming," or whatever Brad Wardell was talking about) is better if consumers have choices about what types of games they want to play, and that game studios are better when there are a variety of backgrounds and viewpoints there. And dammit, if games are Art, then people are going to critically analyze them. And some of us might disagree with those analyses, and that's okay.
[/soapbox]

A very well thought out reply, but at this point it's too late. The damage had already been done. The idea of continuing down the path of commitment to the joys and solace we all enjoy when thinking about Star Control and everything that implies had already been tainted and tarnished for Eth. Am I right? I'm not asking for anything. Really. But it seems to me that Nuclear realizes he hurt you, and I think you can see he's tried repeatedly to make good. He's not asking for your friendship or anything like that, I don't even think he cares if you unblock him or not, but I think it would mean a lot to him if you accepted his apology and forgave him.

Eth wrote:
Saria wrote:
Genuinely sorry that my topic made Eth quit his moderating post, however. :? I... never really intended for that to happen. Golly do I feel like an ass now.

Eh, don't worry about it. I've been trying to quit for like a year now.

A feeble attempt at making Saria feel better.

Saria wrote:
I'm existing. I've been through a lot of ups and downs but I'm existing.

I also wanted to point out about half a year ago I made this topic that I deeply regret ever bringing up. I'm posting this here because I refuse to bump that topic. I felt it was relevant due to the connection with Stardock, but I still feel horrible for bringing it in the first place. Why? It sparked a huge discussion on the board that in the end probably didn't need to be discussed. I sympathized with the Gamergaters as a few of my close friends supported the movement and I have to say that their support of it affected my views on it.

My apology can't right the wrongs I've failed to condemn in the past, but, frankly, I just want to say I'm sorry for being an asshole. Where I am going is trying to be a better person, and to do that I first must acknowledge where I have been.

As you can see, Saria feels totally culpable (even though she shouldn't) for the whole stupid bar brawl in the first place! A while back I accidentally stumbled into the whole mess by making an off-hand remark and suddenly realized how deeply Saria was affected. We spoke about it for a short while via p.m., and she appreciated that I tried to convey to her that she shouldn't feel responsible, but I think that she still does, so both of you should really apologize to her! And if she’s not a she, I once again blame the avatar.

Well, I should probably wrap this up, and I think I'm supposed to say something touching and inspirational here, but I'm drawing a blank. Here's an idea, why don't the both of you each take a seat at the chairs I've pulled out for you...and fix this shit! I would be more than happy to mediate. And I'm sure Angelfish would too! ;)

_________________
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh


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 Post subject: Re: Still kicking. Kind of.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:43 pm 
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Atum-ta the Sixth
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Man, this whole discussion is just making me sad, reminding me of all the great people that mostly or completely stopped posting around here. That we lost so many good folks over this BS topic is especially galling to me, because it seemed like the perfect topic for both sides to acknowledge that the other had some valid points, but everyone needed to stop being assholes about it. I guess that's just not the way things work on the internet, and it decimated this community as a result (and plenty of others like it, as I understand it).

I can only hope that eventually, anyone who felt slighted, infuriated, or embarassed over the whole thing will be willing to forget this mess and come filtering back when they're ready (or alternatively, if it was some other reason you stopped coming here, come on back anytime). If now is not that time, well, I guess we'll just keep waiting. Hopefully soon, though, we miss you guys.


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 Post subject: Re: Still kicking. Kind of.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:46 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:16 pm
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Location: Dallas, TX
Amen. Even though I've only been a member for a relatively short while, I reciprocate this sentiment completely. Thanks Draxas for telling it like it is.

_________________
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh


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 Post subject: Re: Still kicking. Kind of.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:36 pm 
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Yehat Revolutionist
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Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:28 am
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Thanks for that post Trog. It was surprisingly impartial and well-researched, though I think your bias was showing just a teeny tiny bit politically. But regardless, you've given a good assessment for people not fully informed on the drama, as Sedodes would be given his long absence, and I appreciate that you're attempting to undisturb the shit and get everyone to play nice. Again, I think you'd make great moderator material.

The Troglodyte wrote:
one’s angst may actually still be present


CRAWLING IN MY SKEEEN DEEZ WOUNDS THEY WILL NUT HEEEEEL

The Troglodyte wrote:
I think perhaps to him the very notion that there are people out there that abuse, subjugate, bully, harass, manipulate and otherwise take advantage of other people in game dev based on gender, race or any other number of things is not only wrong, but the wrong-doings and coercion of fellow comrades in gaming is shameful. Period. End of discussion. To even mention anything to the contrary seemed to be very offensive in Eth's mind and affected his feelings about his position as mod.


All of those things are very offensive in my mind as well. I don't condone the actions of bullying in any form, so me, you, and Eth are of a like mind in that regard. And I'm sure that you'll also agree that making false accusations against a man to try and ruin his career and assassinate his character, and doing it in such a way that many people will abandon their skepticism and simply take you at your word, would count as bullying, harassment, manipulation... And surely, somebody who loves gaming so much would not want creative visionaries to force themselves into self-censorship in order to appease a bunch of ideological cry-bullies who have delusions of having the moral high ground. And what about the good, talented people having their livelihoods threatened and ruined simply because they refuse to toe the line? Remember the astronomer that landed a space probe on a comet? One of the greatest scientific achievements of our lifetimes, and this man is reduced to a weeping heap on stage, apologizing profusely, all because he was wearing a sexy shirt and a couple of morale busy-bodies didn't like it. Not only is this bullying, but it is regressive. It is completely counter-intuitive to progress, and it fucking infuriates me the more I think about. The people who engage in these sorts of attacks, claiming to be agents of the greater good but who are actually modern day witch hunters... This cannot be allowed to continue. People have to stand up against this. And I certainly don't want this shit infesting the game industry. Remember, when you defend the rights of others, you are defending your own rights as well.

The Troglodyte wrote:
Nuclear also has a knack for finding a way to play devil's advocate, if only to keep the conversation going.


This. Absolutely this. Sometimes I say stuff just to roll the ball in a different direction than its been going for 20 pages. Whether or not I'm actually emotionally invested in what I say is left as an exercise to the reader's imagination.

The Troglodyte wrote:
One moment he'll be delving into a serious discussion and he'll contribute links and his own diligent research on the subject. The next, he's casually making a snarky comment about the same topic without any regard or serious tone at all... which is usually coupled with some brief vulgarity to emphasize his point


Lol this accurately describes both me and Angelfish, which would explain why we get along so well. We're the biggest shit-posters and trolls on the forum, but when we're in the mood we can lay down the facts and stir some actual controversy and discussion. The denizens here tend to be more lenient with Angelfish though since he's been part of the Star Control community since the fucking stone age. Angelfish could drop his pants and take an enormous horse piss on the SCDB web server, and nobody would bat an eye. Everybody else has to be careful, if they want to be on the veterans' good sides.

The Troglodyte wrote:
But it seems to me that Nuclear realizes he hurt you, and I think you can see he's tried repeatedly to make good.


Look, it may seem at times that I enjoy pissing everybody off and starting drama, but in reality I just like a good master-debate. Gaining the animus from the community of a game I love is not something I'm proud of. I post controversial things hoping that people can suspend their emotions and not take me too damn seriously. If people are legitimately pissed off with what I say, either they can roll their eyes and ignore it, or try prove me wrong. But being blocked isn't something I want. Breaks my heart mang :'(-smf

I guess I'm literally asking to be taken less seriously.

The Troglodyte wrote:
so both of you should really apologize to her! (Saria)


You're right. Saria is like that character from System Shock 2 that kills herself after she realizes she opened Pandora's box and reactivated the most evil artificial intelligence in the universe. It's not her fault, but she feels guilty regardless. I apologise for making you feel this way Saria. You really shouldn't feel that you're responsible for the actions of others, because there's pretty much nothing you could have done to stop me lol. But regardless, my empathy won't allow me to leave you feeling like you've committed wrong doing when you are actually completely innocent. Nobody has done anything wrong. We simply had a discussion, as they are meant to be had on a discussion board, and that's just the direction fate decided to take it. Don't apologise for something you didn't do Saria. And I'm glad you sympathized with Gamergate rather than rejecting it entirely as some kind of hate movement. At the very least, maybe you can recognize that, despite what others may say, I have absolutely no support for people who harass and bully online, whether they be trolls or social justice warriors.

The Troglodyte wrote:
I also realize I've been referring to you as "he" and "him" Nuclear -- I mean no offense, I know you mentioned being transgendered. I blame your avatar.


My avatar is of the Cyborg Drone as he appears in the System Shock 1 remake currently in production. Combining all the best features of the Terminator and the Borg. He's such a badass I just had to use him as an avatar somewhere. But yes, good catch, I do indeed identify as a woman as of about a year ago and have been doing hormone therapy for a couple of months. My nails are nicely painted as I type this, I have yesterdays makeup smeared around my eyes like I'm wearing corpse paint, and my hair trails down to my ass. I would appreciate being referred to with female pronouns, but it's not going to offend me if I'm still referred to as a male. I'm used to it and I got bigger problems to worry about in life right now than to make a fuss over something so trivial. Feel free to ask any questions if you're curious, but remember, if you criticize me in any way then you're obviously a transphobe :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Still kicking. Kind of.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:48 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:16 pm
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Thanks Nuclear.
Nuclear wrote:
Thanks for that post Trog. It was surprisingly impartial and well-researched, though I think your bias was showing just a teeny tiny bit politically. But regardless, you've given a good assessment for people not fully informed on the drama, as Sedodes would be given his long absence, and I appreciate that you're attempting to undisturb the shit and get everyone to play nice. Again, I think you'd make great moderator material.

The Troglodyte wrote:
one’s angst may actually still be present


CRAWLING IN MY SKEEEN DEEZ WOUNDS THEY WILL NUT HEEEEEL

The Troglodyte wrote:
I think perhaps to him the very notion that there are people out there that abuse, subjugate, bully, harass, manipulate and otherwise take advantage of other people in game dev based on gender, race or any other number of things is not only wrong, but the wrong-doings and coercion of fellow comrades in gaming is shameful. Period. End of discussion. To even mention anything to the contrary seemed to be very offensive in Eth's mind and affected his feelings about his position as mod.


All of those things are very offensive in my mind as well. I don't condone the actions of bullying in any form, so me, you, and Eth are of a like mind in that regard. And I'm sure that you'll also agree that making false accusations against a man to try and ruin his career and assassinate his character, and doing it in such a way that many people will abandon their skepticism and simply take you at your word, would count as bullying, harassment, manipulation... And surely, somebody who loves gaming so much would not want creative visionaries to force themselves into self-censorship in order to appease a bunch of ideological cry-bullies who have delusions of having the moral high ground. And what about the good, talented people having their livelihoods threatened and ruined simply because they refuse to toe the line? Remember the astronomer that landed a space probe on a comet? One of the greatest scientific achievements of our lifetimes, and this man is reduced to a weeping heap on stage, apologizing profusely, all because he was wearing a sexy shirt and a couple of morale busy-bodies didn't like it. Not only is this bullying, but it is regressive. It is completely counter-intuitive to progress, and it fucking infuriates me the more I think about. The people who engage in these sorts of attacks, claiming to be agents of the greater good but who are actually modern day witch hunters... This cannot be allowed to continue. People have to stand up against this. And I certainly don't want this shit infesting the game industry. Remember, when you defend the rights of others, you are defending your own rights as well.

The Troglodyte wrote:
Nuclear also has a knack for finding a way to play devil's advocate, if only to keep the conversation going.


This. Absolutely this. Sometimes I say stuff just to roll the ball in a different direction than its been going for 20 pages. Whether or not I'm actually emotionally invested in what I say is left as an exercise to the reader's imagination.

The Troglodyte wrote:
One moment he'll be delving into a serious discussion and he'll contribute links and his own diligent research on the subject. The next, he's casually making a snarky comment about the same topic without any regard or serious tone at all... which is usually coupled with some brief vulgarity to emphasize his point


Lol this accurately describes both me and Angelfish, which would explain why we get along so well. We're the biggest shit-posters and trolls on the forum, but when we're in the mood we can lay down the facts and stir some actual controversy and discussion. The denizens here tend to be more lenient with Angelfish though since he's been part of the Star Control community since the fucking stone age. Angelfish could drop his pants and take an enormous horse piss on the SCDB web server, and nobody would bat an eye. Everybody else has to be careful, if they want to be on the veterans' good sides.

The Troglodyte wrote:
But it seems to me that Nuclear realizes he hurt you, and I think you can see he's tried repeatedly to make good.


Look, it may seem at times that I enjoy pissing everybody off and starting drama, but in reality I just like a good master-debate. Gaining the animus from the community of a game I love is not something I'm proud of. I post controversial things hoping that people can suspend their emotions and not take me too damn seriously. If people are legitimately pissed off with what I say, either they can roll their eyes and ignore it, or try prove me wrong. But being blocked isn't something I want. Breaks my heart mang :'(-smf

I guess I'm literally asking to be taken less seriously.

The Troglodyte wrote:
so both of you should really apologize to her! (Saria)


You're right. Saria is like that character from System Shock 2 that kills herself after she realizes she opened Pandora's box and reactivated the most evil artificial intelligence in the universe. It's not her fault, but she feels guilty regardless. I apologise for making you feel this way Saria. You really shouldn't feel that you're responsible for the actions of others, because there's pretty much nothing you could have done to stop me lol. But regardless, my empathy won't allow me to leave you feeling like you've committed wrong doing when you are actually completely innocent. Nobody has done anything wrong. We simply had a discussion, as they are meant to be had on a discussion board, and that's just the direction fate decided to take it. Don't apologise for something you didn't do Saria. And I'm glad you sympathized with Gamergate rather than rejecting it entirely as some kind of hate movement. At the very least, maybe you can recognize that, despite what others may say, I have absolutely no support for people who harass and bully online, whether they be trolls or social justice warriors.

The Troglodyte wrote:
I also realize I've been referring to you as "he" and "him" Nuclear -- I mean no offense, I know you mentioned being transgendered. I blame your avatar.


My avatar is of the Cyborg Drone as he appears in the System Shock 1 remake currently in production. Combining all the best features of the Terminator and the Borg. He's such a badass I just had to use him as an avatar somewhere. But yes, good catch, I do indeed identify as a woman as of about a year ago and have been doing hormone therapy for a couple of months. My nails are nicely painted as I type this, I have yesterdays makeup smeared around my eyes like I'm wearing corpse paint, and my hair trails down to my ass. I would appreciate being referred to with female pronouns, but it's not going to offend me if I'm still referred to as a male. I'm used to it and I got bigger problems to worry about in life right now than to make a fuss over something so trivial. Feel free to ask any questions if you're curious, but remember, if you criticize me in any way then you're obviously a transphobe :lol: :lol: :lol:

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“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh


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 Post subject: Re: Still kicking. Kind of.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:02 pm 
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Yehat Revolutionist
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The Troglodyte wrote:
Thanks Nuclear.
Nuclear wrote:
*snip*

Hmm, all this discussion is certainly productive. It's nice to see something happening in this regard. You seem like a nice gal, Nuclear; everyone has their flaws, and to be honest I think Eth is overreacting a little bit. It takes two to argue, of course, but it would be nice to see some reconciliation on the internet for once. Hope everything goes well.
And if that doesn't work, well, there's always the Dnyaari backup-plan.
Hey, Eth:

>>You want to forgive Nuclear<<

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 Post subject: Re: Still kicking. Kind of.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:31 pm 
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I simply want Eth to realize that, ultimately, we are on the same side. We want fairness and equality, we want the games industry to be welcoming to all kinds of peoples and ideas, we want inclusion, we want the availability of the products that we want to consume. Eth doesn't want people to be bullied or harassed based on arbitrary characteristics of their being. I want an end to corruption, censorship, lying, and ideological witch hunting. These two goals are not mutually exclusive. The mainstream media had done a great job poisoning the well for gamergate and painting it as some kind of organized campaign of harassment. That's obviously not what it was about, but there is simply no way to control how a hashtag gets used, and there is nothing stopping a bunch of pathetic third party trolls from hijacking a hashtag and using it for the opposite of what It was intended to be used. That goes for literally anything political, whether it be gamergate, feminism, social justice... human beings are just jerks, and the anonymity of the internet has a way of bringing out the shit flinging ape in everybody who uses it. I don't condone the actions of trolls. I've supported the gamergaters who actually achieved good positive results, such as game journalism sites rewriting their code of conduct to prevent conflicts of interest. And the people who achieved these goals didn't do this by harassment. All the biggest names in gamergate were adamantly against bullying of any sort.

At the very least, Eth has a lot of friends on this board who would hate to see him gone for good. I would feel guilty just like Saria did if I forced one of our most prolific posters out of his own community. Hell, if I really piss you off so much, than go ahead and keep me blocked, but don't forsake your other chums on here just because of me.

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 Post subject: Re: Still kicking. Kind of.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:48 am 
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Slylandro gasbags
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Nuclear wrote:
I simply want Eth to realize that, ultimately, we are on the same side. We want fairness and equality, we want the games industry to be welcoming to all kinds of peoples and ideas, we want inclusion, we want the availability of the products that we want to consume. Eth doesn't want people to be bullied or harassed based on arbitrary characteristics of their being. I want an end to corruption, censorship, lying, and ideological witch hunting. These two goals are not mutually exclusive. The mainstream media had done a great job poisoning the well for gamergate and painting it as some kind of organized campaign of harassment. That's obviously not what it was about, but there is simply no way to control how a hashtag gets used, and there is nothing stopping a bunch of pathetic third party trolls from hijacking a hashtag and using it for the opposite of what It was intended to be used. That goes for literally anything political, whether it be gamergate, feminism, social justice... human beings are just jerks, and the anonymity of the internet has a way of bringing out the shit flinging ape in everybody who uses it. I don't condone the actions of trolls. I've supported the gamergaters who actually achieved good positive results, such as game journalism sites rewriting their code of conduct to prevent conflicts of interest. And the people who achieved these goals didn't do this by harassment. All the biggest names in gamergate were adamantly against bullying of any sort.

At the very least, Eth has a lot of friends on this board who would hate to see him gone for good. I would feel guilty just like Saria did if I forced one of our most prolific posters out of his own community. Hell, if I really piss you off so much, than go ahead and keep me blocked, but don't forsake your other chums on here just because of me.

_________________
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh


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 Post subject: Re: Still kicking. Kind of.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:51 am 
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Slylandro gasbags
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Death 999 wrote:
Well, I'm amazed at all the opinions you have about Eth.

Yeah I just don't get how you can quit a community of which you've been a part for many years over the opinion of 1 person about an issue that doesn't personally affect you. But perhaps that's just me.

Aaand in come the walls of text. Somebody had to replace Lukipela ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Still kicking. Kind of.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:15 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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Thing is, I don't really take this forum that seriously at all. I've been a part of the SC community since 1999, seen people come and go for various reasons. I'm patient, people will return eventually or they don't, but we all had our moments of wackiness throughout the days. In fact, most of the earlier posts that weren't serious were wacky trollposts aswell. Just having fun :).

I guess I already learned back in 2000 that it's a bad idea to engage in political discussions on a board dedicated to gaming. I remember countless flame wars in some star control email disucssion group back in 2000-2001 or something, and I guess from then on I decided not to engage in such discussions that much anymore because I'm only one person and I can't really change the world, and I don't have the conversational skills to convince you stubborn bunch anyway. :). Besides that these huge walls of text make me lose my attention quickly.

To be honest I don't know enough of gamergate to have an opinion about it, and all american media is hugely biased about it anyway, in fact as a european I rarely use american media for fact checking anyway since it's all bought and sponsored to such an extent that anyone reading it or talking about it is indoctrinated anyway. But if I were to discuss online about it I'd probably do it the same way as Nuclear, posting sharp opposing opinions to ruffle the feathers of people into giving more information than they would usually do, so I learn more about the subject. I guess some people call this Cunningham's law :).


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