A tale of mods and mice

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Quasispatial
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Re: BUY MY SHIT

Post by Quasispatial » Thu May 04, 2017 7:31 pm

It's a sad thing, but I agree that this forum's MetaChron is slowly darkening. Of course, there's still time to solve this conundrum, but honestly, it feels like it's mostly Troglodyte keeping this forum with a semblance of activity these days. I don't think it would take much to bring some more of us back out of hiding - surely there's more people than just me who habitually check this place, oftentimes several times a day. Fixing the obvious flaws would be a good start, but if not that, perhaps we should try our hand at organizing some sort of in-forum event or competition? If nothing else, it might quell the silence for a while.

Maybe start another RP in *Heavy Space*? Really, anything's better than nothing at this point. If I tried to set up some sort of RP, would anyone be interested in joining in? I'm thinking either another council RP (worked fairly well last time, even though it spluttered out after a while), or a more typical 'bunch of aliens go adventuring' thing (one of those 'questy' kind of things). Though now that I think about it, I'm not so certain I'd have the time to keep the latter option running, given my studies...
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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Alvarin
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Re: BUY MY SHIT

Post by Alvarin » Thu May 04, 2017 9:01 pm

Last time I have tried a quest in the HS it was glacial, even though the forum as a whole was significantly more active. I seriously doubt any initiative relying on more than, say, two participants is a valid one currently. As sad as this observation is.

As for seeking alternative place, I see no reason to. It will consist of exactly the same participants as the SCDB does now. Probably a bit of hype few first days/weeks, but then it'll quiet down to current status. It's not like this place is swamped in spam and needs to be ditched...
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Zeracles
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Re: BUY MY SHIT

Post by Zeracles » Fri May 05, 2017 4:54 am

What I've written has, I think, been poorly understood by all of you. It looks like you've not read what I've said properly, because your replies are mostly opinions that do not address the arguments I have put, which I think you will find, if you bother to read them, are quite sensible. Maybe a community where this is the depth of discussion possible isn't worth salvaging. Anyway, in replying to you, I have to mostly refer back to what I have already said, a sign that I am wasting my time.
Quasispatial wrote:I don't think it would take much to bring some more of us back out of hiding - surely there's more people than just me who habitually check this place, oftentimes several times a day.
Alvarin wrote:It will consist of exactly the same participants as the SCDB does now.
As I've said, I'm not that interested in the current membership. I am far more interested, as I have said repeatedly, in the opportunity presented by the new star control. Currently, we are not placed to capitalise on that. Registration of new members, whether it has anything to do with the new star control, is unreliable anyway while Scott's the only one approving new members.
Alvarin wrote:As for seeking alternative place, I see no reason to.
Many reasons have been raised. That at least will be clear to us all, I think. But again, read my posts if your memory needs refreshment.
Alvarin wrote:Probably a bit of hype few first days/weeks, but then it'll quiet down to current status.
No. Look at what I said. I never said anything about hope for a short-term activity boost. There might even be a short-term loss. But the accompanying realignment might have more to offer than the long-term decline we currently have.
Alvarin wrote:It's not like this place is swamped in spam and needs to be ditched...
Yet again, please take the time to read through what I'm saying. I suggested pretty clearly not that we should leave this place, but threaten the administration here with that prospect. I think that would be enough to get what we want, and if it isn't that says a lot and means that we really should go. If we don't resolve that way, and Scott sees this, what do you think the probability of his inactivity ending is?

But like I said at the beginning of this post, I'm probably wasting my time. The problems I'm talking about are not merely theoretical, they have probably already had a severe negative effect on this place because it looks like the obstructiveness of the administration here led to Luki's departure both as mod and active member. And it is about to lead to mine as well. I'm not about to delete my account, but it is becoming clear to me that this place is doomed both by its incompetent administration and intransigent membership. Time spent maintaining a presence on a doomed forum is not time well spent.
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krulle
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Re: BUY MY SHIT

Post by krulle » Fri May 05, 2017 7:03 am

I agree, the registration issues need to be solved ASAP.
Without that solved, there can be no fresh blood in our communities....
And without that, there'll be no increase in activity either.

edit: May the fourth is over, but for all interested, a warning, the Canadian Authorities have issued a recall : http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/7/V ... rn=2017242

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Quasispatial
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Re: BUY MY SHIT

Post by Quasispatial » Fri May 05, 2017 7:44 am

Whilst, yes, the whole issue with registration *really* needs to be fixed, I don't think threatening to mass-exudos away from here is the right way to do it. You shouldn't threaten to do something unless you're actually planning to go through with it, and honestly, even though this place is rather slow, I don't really want to leave. I like it here. That being said, if everyone else disappears I'd probably stop checking back simply because there'd never be anything to check back to, but that's not really the point here. We don't need to threaten with it - the very fact that we're having this discussion is clearly emphasizing that there are issues which need to be fixed.

I did read your post, Zeracles, but that doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with them. True enough, your arguments are solid, and whilst I agree that the registration issue is preventing new people from joining up (many people register, after all, because they want to make a post now and if they have to wait, then, well...), your stated 'solution' isn't really one I concur with, as I've stated above. Alvarin saw no reason to move elsewhere, and I can say the same for me. It is true you have raised reasons for it, but to be honest, I don't think your stated reasons are reason enough. Besides, just because you didn't say anything about hoping for a short-time activity boost doesn't mean that others can't make their own conclusions. Of course, a new forum with a more active staff may help to solve the flaws, but there's no reason to assume that the new administration wouldn't grow similarily complacent.

Then again, we are having this discussion in the off-topic section, so maybe it shouldn't come as a surprise that it isn't 100% reliable in terms of replies. We should probably consider making another thread in a more relevant section for this.
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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Zeracles
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Re: BUY MY SHIT

Post by Zeracles » Fri May 05, 2017 9:07 am

Quasispatial wrote:Whilst, yes, the whole issue with registration *really* needs to be fixed, I don't think threatening to mass-exudos away from here is the right way to do it.
Open to suggestions. Scott is still ignoring us. Is that acceptable? If not, what is "the right way to do it"?
Quasispatial wrote:You shouldn't threaten to do something unless you're actually planning to go through with it
I wasn't suggesting an idle threat (which would be dumb on a public forum). While I don't propose we plan it, I do propose that we threaten it while being prepared to go through with it, in the hope that we don't have to. Actually having a place to go to is a step towards a credible threat.
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Death 999
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Re: BUY MY SHIT

Post by Death 999 » Fri May 05, 2017 2:05 pm

I tried to join your forum, but for some reason my confirmation email didn't get through. Checked spambox. Can I change the email to which it should be sent? Or perhaps you can just manually confirm me.

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Quasispatial
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Re: BUY MY SHIT

Post by Quasispatial » Fri May 05, 2017 3:04 pm

Zeracles wrote:
Quasispatial wrote:Whilst, yes, the whole issue with registration *really* needs to be fixed, I don't think threatening to mass-exudos away from here is the right way to do it.
Open to suggestions. Scott is still ignoring us. Is that acceptable? If not, what is "the right way to do it"?
Quasispatial wrote:You shouldn't threaten to do something unless you're actually planning to go through with it
I wasn't suggesting an idle threat (which would be dumb on a public forum). While I don't propose we plan it, I do propose that we threaten it while being prepared to go through with it, in the hope that we don't have to. Actually having a place to go to is a step towards a credible threat.
What is the proper way indeed? That is a difficult question. I admit that the current situation is about as preferable as running out of fuel in the middle of hyperspace, and I agree that something must be done. Likewise, a secondary site could prove useful were this one to somehow be rendered inoperative, if for no other reason than that the community would never really be able to re-assemble without a fallback point. That far, we're on the same page. Trying to use it as leverage in order to threaten Scott out of inaction would be a poor move from there, though, if you ask me. I'd say, we get a second site up as a fallback measure, and in the event that it doesn't just end up dying (as many initiatives tend to do) after a shorter time, we have a secondary solution and can stop worrying. If the new board proves unsuccessful, well, we haven't jumped ship from a board that at least works, if haphazardly at times, and still has some activity after all these years. If it proves to be more successful than this forum, seeing more activity and a greater degree of longevity, well, then we can simply transition to that one and carry on the legacy from there, as sad as it would be to see this one go. That way, we have more options, and do not have to risk leaving this place only for the replacement board to prove a failure in case the 'negotiations' collapse. We could just end up with no board at all if that happened - angering the administration won't help us. It's a bit closer to the Spathi approach, but I think it's better to be safe than sorry in this matter.
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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Zeracles
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Re: BUY MY SHIT

Post by Zeracles » Sat May 06, 2017 6:37 am

Quasispatial wrote:Likewise, a secondary site could prove useful were this one to somehow be rendered inoperative, if for no other reason than that the community would never really be able to re-assemble without a fallback point.
Once when the old SMF board went down Eth made a thread on UQMF as a temporary SCDB, which was pretty funny. But okay, we at least have a fallback point, which can be later used to back up a threat later on if we so choose. Just having it should apply gentle pressure to the administration here. But let's consider escalating later if stuff doesn't get fixed. Thanks for your input. Maybe we can agree to this resolution for now?
Quasispatial wrote:Trying to use it as leverage in order to threaten Scott out of inaction would be a poor move from there, though, if you ask me. I'd say, we get a second site up as a fallback measure, and in the event that it doesn't just end up dying (as many initiatives tend to do) after a shorter time, we have a secondary solution and can stop worrying. If the new board proves unsuccessful, well, we haven't jumped ship from a board that at least works, if haphazardly at times, and still has some activity after all these years.
It starts as a dead forum, and should remain that way unless most of us here decide to move. I think it only works that way because the community is too small to be divided.
Quasispatial wrote:angering the administration won't help us.
Don't we have a right to be angered by the administration here? What Scott's doing is basically sabotage. I note that no one is stepping up to bat for him, which is really unsurprising because his action/inaction is indefensible.
Quasispatial wrote:We could just end up with no board at all if that happened
Not sure why that would happen, I've held that domain for years now. And it would have a better administration than here, because authority wouldn't be restricted so much. On that note -
Death 999 wrote:I tried to join your forum, but for some reason my confirmation email didn't get through. Checked spambox. Can I change the email to which it should be sent? Or perhaps you can just manually confirm me.
Sorry, I need to configure the smtp settings (I installed it on a whim and didn't test properly) and am hopefully about to resolve that. I have manually confirmed you, and you should (if I did the thing right) be a full admin. Feel free to change the place however you like, or not.
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Quasispatial
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Re: BUY MY SHIT

Post by Quasispatial » Sat May 06, 2017 7:36 am

Zeracles wrote:{1}Once when the old SMF board went down Eth made a thread on UQMF as a temporary SCDB, which was pretty funny. But okay, we at least have a fallback point, which can be later used to back up a threat later on if we so choose. Just having it should apply gentle pressure to the administration here. But let's consider escalating later if stuff doesn't get fixed. Thanks for your input. Maybe we can agree to this resolution for now?

{2}It starts as a dead forum, and should remain that way unless most of us here decide to move. I think it only works that way because the community is too small to be divided.

{3}Don't we have a right to be angered by the administration here? What Scott's doing is basically sabotage. I note that no one is stepping up to bat for him, which is really unsurprising because his action/inaction is indefensible.

{4}Not sure why that would happen, I've held that domain for years now. And it would have a better administration than here, because authority wouldn't be restricted so much. On that note -

{4.5}Sorry, I need to configure the smtp settings (I installed it on a whim and didn't test properly) and am hopefully about to resolve that. I have manually confirmed you, and you should (if I did the thing right) be a full admin. Feel free to change the place however you like, or not.
I've done a little editing in the quote above. Added some numbers, to save the effort of having to put in multiple quotes. I've handled them down below with the same enumeration.

{1} - Yes, I do believe that would be a good point to start. It wouldn't do to act in haste, and I fully agree that establishing a fallback point would be a good place to start. It's a suitable starting resolution; we can decide how to act from there once we have everything established, so it appears we are in agreement.

{2} - I admit I'm not entirely sure how to interpret this bit. To avoid confusion and to clear the way for a more sensible reply, I would ask for a clarification, if possible.

{3} - I'm not saying that there's no reason to be angered. Scott isn't really doing this properly, that much is certain. I'm just saying that if we make him angry enough, it might just backfire. It's a risk-reward kind of thing; if it works, the board'll be better off for it, but it could also end up driving Scott further away from what he could perceive as a 'hostile' forum, which would further lessen the chance of a solution presenting itself. At least, that was what I was thinking when I wrote that sentence. I'm not saying that there's no reason to be upset -far from it- and as you say, there's certainly a reason why nobody's taken Scott's side; all I'm really trying to do is advocate caution.

{4 & 4.5} - Hmm? What is this other *time* Death speaks of, and that you've apparently held for a while? I'm afraid I know nothing of it - have I missed something here? Perhaps, if you wouldn't mind, a link could be handy - might as well register over there, as I admit I am curious.
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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