Political Discussion Megathread

Anything that isn't Star Control. Mind your manners!

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RTyp06
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Re: Political Discussion Megathread

Post by RTyp06 »

Death 999 wrote:Would people stop calling the US treasury debt as a credit card? T-Bills and T-Bonds are at extremely low interest rates, especially right now. By calling it a credit card, it makes it seem like our debt service is over an order of magnitude worse than it is.
Symantics.
Niffiwan
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Re: Political Discussion Megathread

Post by Niffiwan »

Compared to 16 other 1st-world countries, (most of the EU, Canada and Japan), America is near the top in a lot of categories and is #1 in:

infant mortality
injury rates
homicide rates
teen pregnancy
STDs (including AIDS)
drug abuse
obesity
diabetes
heart disease
lung disease
disabilities
violence

These are all things that happen the most in America.

And all that while spending twice as much on healthcare per capita. But at least America isn't socialist like those other places - it is admirable to see a country standing up for its philosophical principles, even at personal cost to itself.
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Death 999
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Re: Political Discussion Megathread

Post by Death 999 »

RTyp06 wrote:Symantics.
'Semantics', I presume?

It makes sense to dismiss an argument as irrelevant semantics when it's a counterargument and does not address the original point, or if it raises a distinction without a difference. My comment was neither.

Word choices - especially this sort of extreme dysphemism - are not irrelevant. George Orwell had a lot to say about pernicious uses of language. He knew what he was talking about. Shall I go hunt up his essays?
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RTyp06
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Re: Political Discussion Megathread

Post by RTyp06 »

Death 999 wrote:
RTyp06 wrote:Symantics.
'Semantics', I presume?

It makes sense to dismiss an argument as irrelevant semantics when it's a counterargument and does not address the original point, or if it raises a distinction without a difference. My comment was neither.

Word choices - especially this sort of extreme dysphemism - are not irrelevant. George Orwell had a lot to say about pernicious uses of language. He knew what he was talking about. Shall I go hunt up his essays?
You stated an opinion to which I simply stated mine. Which is that just because the interest rate is lower within T bills and T bonds and the fact that our country relies on a credit rating to determine interest rates, the significance is insufficient to differentiate between national borrowing and the average household's use of a credit card. Thus you are indeed arguing semantics in my opinion.

You object to the use of "credit card" because it invokes a negative image in your mind. Objection noted, but it doesn't change the fact that they are utterly the same concept.

By the way, there really is no need to take offense as that was not my intent.
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Death 999
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Re: Political Discussion Megathread

Post by Death 999 »

Who was taking offense? I'm asking for people to use words that are appropriate to the tasks.

Credit cards are so quantitatively different from T-bills that conflating them is extremely misleading.

FACT: Credit cards are the worst sort of credit to let sit around, due to its extremely high interest rates. People who rack up a credit card balance and let it sit are normally poor at financial planning.

FACT: The above fact is common knowledge, useful for rhetorical tricks.

FACT: there is almost exactly two orders of magnitude difference in interest rates between T-Bills and credit cards. Let's look at some proportions:

T-bill interest rates / Credit Card interest rates

Cheetah top speed / SR-71 top speed (rumored)

age of Star Control 2 / age of Christianity


Whoever originally coined this usage (and I will allow multiple starting points, and this applies to all of them) was either profoundly ignorant of finance, or trying to deform public discourse, or a general bullshitter. It is not a usage which aims at the truth.
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RTyp06
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Re: Political Discussion Megathread

Post by RTyp06 »

In my view, a credit score (rating), an interest rate and incurred debt are the three key components to using a credit card. Government borrowing has those three key ingredients as well, thus the analogy stands.

I refuse to believe you are that anal retentive over somthing so trivial. Do you get agitated when sombody calls an internal combustion engine a "motor" too? The distinction is so unimportant and trivial that I find it difficult to believe you have put this much effort into the subject already. I'm certain we could find a much more suitable subject to debate if that is what you are after.
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Maloo Oture
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Re: Political Discussion Megathread

Post by Maloo Oture »

Can't we gat back to being a New Alliance of Free Stars?

lol.

But for reals. I just learned that Ukraine has limited freedom of religion. Aparently, chrstianity and atheism are accepted. But I learned that the government of Ukraine expelled all people beloging to the muslim faith.
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Angelfish
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Re: Political Discussion Megathread

Post by Angelfish »

Maloo Oture wrote:Can't we gat back to being a New Alliance of Free Stars?

lol.

But for reals. I just learned that Ukraine has limited freedom of religion. Aparently, chrstianity and atheism are accepted. But I learned that the government of Ukraine expelled all people beloging to the muslim faith.
wikipedia disagrees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Ukraine
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Death 999
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Re: Political Discussion Megathread

Post by Death 999 »

RTyp06 wrote:I refuse to believe you are that anal retentive over somthing so trivial.
It's not trivial at all!

'Running up the credit card' is terrible fiscal policy for any entity.

'Taking out loans at negligible interest' can be good fiscal policy.

Speaking of it as a credit card is prejudicial language. Your 'refusal to believe' (your words!) doesn't make me anal retentive for noticing this.
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RTyp06
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Re: Political Discussion Megathread

Post by RTyp06 »

Well, I'm willing to bet there is one thing we can agree upon; racking up huge, possibly unrepayable debt is not a good idea at any level, regardless of the underlying details and specifics of the loan(s).

Right now, the national debt limit which needs to be constantly raised, is being used for partisan political leverage by the lawmakers in Congress. Currently it's the Republicans holding the country hostage by threatening to not raise the debt limit. If the Republicans regain power, it could just as easily be the Democrats pulling the same crap.
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