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 Post subject: Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:58 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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krulle wrote:
I transported the beast into the purple decoy capsules of an Eluder. They've been built to take the damage, without risking the ship itself. So I presumed the connecting strut is being able to be vacuumized, thus providing a perfectly separated safety hold.


Another interesting approach to the beast housing situation.

krulle wrote:
On top of that, I transferred most of the crew over to BumpingTool, and again, Fwiffo took the short [edit] Ta Puun stick and was the one left behind.


Smart move, lest many a Spathi die just from sheer fright!

krulle wrote:
He is black Spathi Squandron material, he just doesn't know it.


I knew that from the moment he opened fire on an unknown lander craft. ;)

krulle wrote:
(BTW, I found the in-game artifact's name very spoilerish)


Agreed, but perhaps they called it "VUX Beast" on purpose in case the creature was discovered prior to talking with ZEX, so that way the player would at the very least have an idea of where to take it.

krulle wrote:
I remember having feared that a timer is connected to the beast being onboard of the ship, and went as fast as my engines could to StarBase (scientists report), then over to the guys who have that name.


I am currently sharing those fears, since I don't know for how long we can keep it in check… and I don't want to be dragging this thing around space long enough to find out!

However, this is not a completely new predicament for me of bringing aboard ship a unique creature with unknown abilities… it reminds me of one time while playing Starflight 2, I opted to purchase a "Gas Slug" from an alien merchant, who claimed the pleasant animal would make my crew happy during our voyage. Well, it did make them happy… in fact, they were so happy and inebriated from the noxious gases the slug emmitted that everybody became so lethargic and lackadaisical that even my officers wouldn't obey my commands right away, saying stuff like, "What's the big deal, Captain?" or "I'll do it in a minute, Captain." as I repeatedly pressed the command buttons in an effort to get them to comply -- and let me tell you, it sucks when your crew becomes so apathetic that they won't raise the shields or fly away… even with a G’nunk warship closing in fast! Yikes! After that, to save our skins, I ejected the damn worm into space.

_________________
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” - Khan Noonien Singh


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 Post subject: Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:42 pm 
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Arilou wiseguy

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Me thinks, that if you can catch the beast, you have spent so many credits on technology, that the Melnorme would've had sold you the info in the meantime....
And if you did it without buying info from the Melnorme, you've had long talks with alien races, so by now you would've had a chat wit the Vux too, and know what this beast is.


So it would not be spoilerish anymore.


Interestingly though, the Spathi know about it too. And the Spathi being cowards (preferably not leaving their cozy livingroom, much less their solar system, even less their Sphere of Influence (SOI)), how did they find out? And how did the beast get there? How old does it get?
This beast leaves me many open questions...


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 Post subject: Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:09 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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krulle wrote:
Me thinks, that if you can catch the beast, you have spent so many credits on technology, that the Melnorme would've had sold you the info in the meantime....
And if you did it without buying info from the Melnorme, you've had long talks with alien races, so by now you would've had a chat wit the Vux too, and know what this beast is.


It's obviously much easier to capture that vile varmint with the assistance of Melnorme technology such as a faster-moving lander with lifeform-resistant shielding and a rapid stunner lander, but I assume it's possible to accomplish the task with a vanilla lander, although one should probably expect significantly more casualties. I looked through all of the Melnorme purchased dialogue, but I couldn't find anywhere that they directly mention the beast. This is the only reference I found:

"While you probably believe that the Shofixti are extinct, having caused their sun to flare with a device identical to the Utwig's super-bomb, the truth is not so simple. There yet exists a chance to resuscitate this meta-marsupial species, though it will not be easy. The problem at hand seems simple: bring together two Shofixti of different sexes and the carnal gymnastics proceed. Given the short gestation and maturation time of the Shofixti, you will have thousands of the creatures in ten years, and millions in twenty. Finding a male of the species is easier than flup, simply visit the Shofixti's blasted star system at Delta Gorno. Captain Tanaka or its sibling Katana shall greet you on your arrival. A warning! -- These warriors are old and fly in barely functional ships. If they mistakenly identify you as the enemy, do not return fire! Retreat and try to talk with them on their own level. The females of the species will be more difficult to obtain. The only supply of such remaining in the galaxy is at Alpha Cerenkov I, included as part of General ZEX's bizarre and beloved menagerie. Fortunately for you, Captain, ZEX is considered... well... perverse, by his fellow VUX. This is because ZEX actually enjoys the presence of human beings. To acquire the Shofixti females, you will have to appease ZEX, or kill him." – Melnorme

It's also possible for the player to have bypassed VUX territory entirely, particularly since when you first meet Fwiffo (that is, if you meet Fwiffo) the Spathi sphere of influence appears. That being the case, the player may venture out there and learn from the other Spathi about the disappearing/re-appearing "star", whereas an investigation into which results in the discovery of QuasiSpace and the knowledge of the Ur-Quan Warp Pod when you visit the Arilou, and from there it's relatively easy to see how then a player might find the creature by pure happenstance, since one of the portals puts your ship adjacent to Delta Lyncis. A bit of a stretch, but certainly not out of the question.

krulle wrote:
Interestingly though, the Spathi know about it too. And the Spathi being cowards (preferably not leaving their cozy livingroom, much less their solar system, even less their Sphere of Influence (SOI)), how did they find out?


I assume you're referring to the time when Fwiffo volunteers a different set of homeworld coordinates:

Captain Zelnick - "Just tell me the coordinates, alien dog-slime!"

Fwiffo – "Hmmm... I see... Very well then, your threats have convinced me to reveal this secret. Spathiwa is the 1st planet out from the star at HyperSpace (570.4, 979.5). My ichors pulse through my body with unusual ferocity! Your arrogance has whipped me into a violent frenzy, and I am compelled to engage you in a preemptive-defensive action. Now you shall never learn my important secrets, such as the location of the Orange Giant star around which my home planet orbits...oops -- dang! -- you made me give that away! Captain, if you somehow survive my attack, I have one sincere hope, that you may soon be devoured slowly by an ugly, flat-toothed herbivore!"

This doesn't necessarily mean that Fwiffo (or any other Spathi) is aware of the beast, but I can see where you might draw that conclusion. I must admit, however, that solving the riddle of the creature's location was made much easier by my prior knowledge of that far away star system. By the way, this dialogue segment also gives further credence to my assessment that the creature can be found by accident and without first meeting ZEX.

krulle wrote:
And how did the beast get there? How old does it get?
This beast leaves me many open questions...


Good questions. Maybe some other folks around here have some theories, but I'll have to wait until I've heard from the scientists back on Starbase before submitting my own conjecture.

_________________
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” - Khan Noonien Singh


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 Post subject: Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:11 pm 
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I agree, that name should be replaced. There are enough ways to find ZEX without having to be aimed straight at the VUX for no in-game reason.


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 Post subject: Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:31 pm 
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Arilou wiseguy

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:01 pm
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I apologize for having forgotten, that the Melnorme do not tell you the location. (But then finally something the programmers did not give away in their in-game hint system.)
I thought someone could give you the location once you're down on that track. And since the Melnorme basically know and sell everything....
(BTW: how much credits you'd have to pay for getting a Probe for your own purpose?)

Anyway, further remarks by me have to wait, as well sa the continuation of this topic, as it might become spoilerish.


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 Post subject: Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Captain’s Log - Aug 1, 2157 - Starbase

Before heading back right away, we used the Umgah ’Caster to summon the Melnorme, and this also gave us a chance to see if we could detect any spacefaring aliens nearby, but none other than the Melnorme arrived, so we refueled. I also wanted to see if the Melnorme were interested in our newly acquired lifeform (not as if we would’ve parted with it), but they were only interested in our usual bio-data and of course the newly discovered Rainbow World.

After departing from the Trader ship, we used the Portal Spawner to enter QuasiSpace and we took the portal which put us near Starbase, after which we brought up the starmap to set course for home and we noticed that the Pkunk’s migration flock was beginning to enter the Gorno Constellation.

We arrived at Starbase and were pleased to see Commander Hayes anxiously awaiting our return, and he seemed mighty pleased to see us as well, since he had some good news to share, because while we were away, a pair of Ariloulaleelay Skiffs appeared out of nowhere in proximity of the Starbase and have offered their services and have been added to our illustrious and diverse fleet! Oh!… But poor Commander Hayes, I’m ordering the Starbase’s Chief Medical Officer to give Hayes a once over, since he told us there were actually 3 Skiffs, when there’s clearly only 2. Perhaps the commander was simply caught up in all the hubbub.

Before reporting to his medical check-up, Commander Hayes referred me to junior scientist Hawkins, who was placed in charge of evaluating the hostile alien creature we brought back from Delta Lyncis, after the monstrous thing injured the head scientist, Dr. Chu, when he got too close to the cage.

This being the case, I’m not sure how reliable the information the fairly young man (who may even be a relative of the Starbase commander, considering how he sounded much like a "Hayes Jr.") was giving us, but he described the creature as a triple-jointed xenoteratomorph (when broken down from their Greek origins, “xeno” for “foreign”, “terato” meaning “monster” and “morph” meaning “form”, thus it’s basically a big alien monster lifeform) with spikes and razor-plates covering its body.

It can eat just about anything, and let’s just say it’s not a picky eater. After a lengthy list given to us by Hawkins of the creature’s preferred diet during its stay, including plants, animals, pizza, metal, clothing, furniture, plastic, asbestos, bleach, bulkheads, arsenic, raw plutonium, plasma injectors, and anything else it can get its mouth on, he urged us to get the newly dubbed “Green Demon” off the station before it gets loose and starts killing everyone! I can’t say I blame him.

It was just about that time when Commander Hayes returned from sickbay and said that Dr. Chu should expect to make a full recovery, as soon as his cranium fracture settles… and all his limbs have been replaced by prosthetics.

Hayes also received word from the science teams that have determined how the Slylandro Destruct Code Sequence works, and it has to do with something similar to the Rolling-Phung algorithm. Of course! The Rolling-Phung algorithm! Why didn’t I think of that?! We could have been rid of these troublesome probes a long time ago!

If I remember correctly from my handbook entitled “How to Destroy Hostile Robots and other Cybernetic Nuisances, Volume 1”, the way it works is that the targeted probe receives an image of a topological anomaly, which has been disguised to look innocuous, since the probes may have ways of screening out programmed anomalies. The geometric form is a paradox and cannot exist in real space or time, and when they download the shape, they’ll try to analyze it, and the program is designed so that each approach they take will spawn another anomalous solution. The anomalies are designed to interact with each other, linking together to form an endless and unsolvable puzzle, and after several thousand computational cycles, it results in a total systems failure, and the probe blows up… At least that’s how I think it works.

After the meeting, we topped off the fuel tanks, sold our minerals, but we kept all of our current modules in place. We’ve also made some fleet adjustments:

Image

With the new addition of the 2 skiffs, I decided to remove 2 other ships to make room for any new additions we may pick up along the way, whether more Pkunk or otherwise, so we scuttled and salvaged the Earthling Cruiser H.M.S.1 Lexington and the Zoq-Fot-Pik Stinger H.M.S. Wasp.

The Skiffs have been christened the H.M.S. Discus and H.M.S. Hockey Puck commanded by Captain Patooti and Captain Tankafo, respectively.

We didn’t want to remove any ships that couldn’t be rebuilt (and we checked to make sure the Arilou didn’t bring any ship design specs, but they didn’t) but we kept both Orz ships due to their battle versatility.

We will continue with refitting the ship and fleet, as well as acclimating the Arilou into their new role as allies. Captain out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1Her Majesty’s Ship

_________________
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” - Khan Noonien Singh


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 Post subject: Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:18 am 
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Orz *camper*

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:51 am
Posts: 116
Location: Toronto, Canada
krulle wrote:
I apologize for having forgotten, that the Melnorme do not tell you the location. (But then finally something the programmers did not give away in their in-game hint system.)
I thought someone could give you the location once you're down on that track. And since the Melnorme basically know and sell everything....


Well, since Trog has already found the beast, I think it's safe to say that there is indeed another source that tells you where it is, so yes, it is very possible to find it without encountering the VUX at all.

The Troglodyte wrote:
Oh!… But poor Commander Hayes, I’m ordering the Starbase’s Chief Medical Officer to give Hayes a once over, since he told us there were actually 3 Skiffs, when there’s clearly only 2. Perhaps the commander was simply caught up in all the hubbub.


I'm sure you're joking, but I'm gonna point out anyway that you only got 2 Skiffs because there was no room in your fleet for the third one.

The Troglodyte wrote:
If I remember correctly from my handbook entitled “How to Destroy Hostile Robots and other Cybernetic Nuisances, Volume 1”, the way it works is that the targeted probe receives an image of a topological anomaly, which has been disguised to look innocuous, since the probes may have ways of screening out programmed anomalies. The geometric form is a paradox and cannot exist in real space or time, and when they download the shape, they’ll try to analyze it, and the program is designed so that each approach they take will spawn another anomalous solution. The anomalies are designed to interact with each other, linking together to form an endless and unsolvable puzzle, and after several thousand computational cycles, it results in a total systems failure, and the probe blows up… At least that’s how I think it works.


Does this mean you're going to name the first infected Probe "Hue?" ;)


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 Post subject: Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:53 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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krulle wrote:
I apologize for having forgotten, that the Melnorme do not tell you the location. (But then finally something the programmers did not give away in their in-game hint system.)
I thought someone could give you the location once you're down on that track. And since the Melnorme basically know and sell everything....


I've often wondered how different my current adventure would be if I hadn't found the Melnorme as early as I did. They do seem much like a built-in hintbook. They were almost a little too helpful, in my opinion.

Tormuse wrote:
The Troglodyte wrote:
Oh!… But poor Commander Hayes, I’m ordering the Starbase’s Chief Medical Officer to give Hayes a once over, since he told us there were actually 3 Skiffs, when there’s clearly only 2. Perhaps the commander was simply caught up in all the hubbub.


I'm sure you're joking, but I'm gonna point out anyway that you only got 2 Skiffs because there was no room in your fleet for the third one.


Of course, just a little fun in an attempt to create a segue to the conversation with jr. scientist Hawkins. Speaking of which, I think I may have figured out why I just now received the gift ships from the Arilou and not sooner, since I've been back to Starbase since encountering them and I didn't acquire any Skiffs at that time. At first I thought maybe they only bestow the ships after a certain amount of time had passed…

However, upon looking back through my logs, before I met the Arilou I had already gone to the ZFP homeworld to save them from the :? "Almighty Solo Homeworld-Destroying Kohr-Ah Marauder of Absolute Certain Death", and was rewarded with a patrol of Stingers afterwards, so when I returned to Starbase, there wasn't any room in the fleet, so therefore the event flag wasn't triggered. Am I correct? I assume so, although I could always use the time portal to confirm my suspicions. Hmmm…

Tormuse wrote:
The Troglodyte wrote:
If I remember correctly from my handbook entitled “How to Destroy Hostile Robots and other Cybernetic Nuisances, Volume 1”, the way it works is that the targeted probe receives an image of a topological anomaly, which has been disguised to look innocuous, since the probes may have ways of screening out programmed anomalies. The geometric form is a paradox and cannot exist in real space or time, and when they download the shape, they’ll try to analyze it, and the program is designed so that each approach they take will spawn another anomalous solution. The anomalies are designed to interact with each other, linking together to form an endless and unsolvable puzzle, and after several thousand computational cycles, it results in a total systems failure, and the probe blows up… At least that’s how I think it works.


Does this mean you're going to name the first infected Probe "Hue?" ;)

I was kind of hoping somebody would figure that out! :) Commander Hayes' brief description of how the destruct program works prompted me to think about in that way, since there is something of a parallel in the manner in which the probe destruction trickle effect would occur compared with how the Borg invasive program would've functioned, had it been released into the collective.

_________________
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” - Khan Noonien Singh


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 Post subject: Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Arilou wiseguy

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:01 pm
Posts: 229
The Troglodyte wrote:
Tormuse wrote:
The Troglodyte wrote:
Oh!… But poor Commander Hayes, I’m ordering the Starbase’s Chief Medical Officer to give Hayes a once over, since he told us there were actually 3 Skiffs, when there’s clearly only 2. Perhaps the commander was simply caught up in all the hubbub.


I'm sure you're joking, but I'm gonna point out anyway that you only got 2 Skiffs because there was no room in your fleet for the third one.


Of course, just a little fun in an attempt to create a segue to the conversation with jr. scientist Hawkins. Speaking of which, I think I may have figured out why I just now received the gift ships from the Arilou and not sooner, since I've been back to Starbase since encountering them and I didn't acquire any Skiffs at that time. At first I thought maybe they only bestow the ships after a certain amount of time had passed…

However, upon looking back through my logs, before I met the Arilou I had already gone to the ZFP homeworld to save them from the :? "Almighty Solo Homeworld-Destroying Kohr-Ah Marauder of Absolute Certain Death", and was rewarded with a patrol of Stingers afterwards, so when I returned to Starbase, there wasn't any room in the fleet, so therefore the event flag wasn't triggered. Am I correct? I assume so, although I could always use the time portal to confirm my suspicions. Hmmm…

I've spoilered the answer, if you're interested. It's not that spoilerish, but it does tell you directly the solution to your question, as I remember it, instead of you finding out for yourself.
No, with the ZFP you get the reward ships immediately. But the Arilou are triggered by you arriving at the StarBase. If you know the game, you can go to the Shipyard, make room for three ships, and only then talk to Cmdr. Hayes, for maximum "reward". But you're not in a situation that you need this extra boost.
You did not get ZFP Stingers as reward, as your ship list was full at the moment the ZFP talked about giving you their best captains (those that were too cowardly to defend the planet in a last stance).


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 Post subject: Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:29 pm 
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Slylandro gasbags
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krulle wrote:
I've spoilered the answer, if you're interested. It's not that spoilerish, but it does tell you directly the solution to your question, as I remember it, instead of you finding out for yourself.
[ spoiler]No, with the ZFP you get the reward ships immediately. But the Arilou are triggered by you arriving at the StarBase. If you know the game, you can go to the Shipyard, make room for three ships, and only then talk to Cmdr. Hayes, for maximum "reward". But you're not in a situation that you need this extra boost.
You did not get ZFP Stingers as reward, as your ship list was full at the moment the ZFP talked about giving you their best captains (those that were too cowardly to defend the planet in a last stance).[/spoiler]


Ok, so I went ahead and viewed the spoiler marked material since this was a specific instance where you gave me the option of checking it out for myself and informed me it wasn't directly related to any plot point of the game, and I thank you for your consideration, krulle.

I went back and reloaded a previous save, which was when I defeated the Kohr-Ah "Unrelenting Killer of Wood Jukes and Tree Narfs" and then received 2 ZFP Stingers upon victory (and not the allowed 4, since I only had 2 ship slots available). Chronologically speaking (due to time portal ommitance), I travelled to Alpha Pavonis and got the Warp Pod and gave it to the Arilou so they could improvise our ship with a Portal Spawner, and then I used a portal to take us down to the Pkunk before they could accidentally achieve a hasty extinction.

I then used the Portal Spawner to return home and first spoke with Commander Hayes who shared with us the scientists' report on the Portal Spawner, but although I removed the 2 free additional Stingers afterwards, since I didn't even consider talking with Hayes again (since I had no prior knowledge of potentially receiving any Arilou gift ships) I missed the opportunity out of ignorance.

To be sure, I tested it (since I already had a save game at that spot, which is usually the case when returning to base) and the event doesn't occur until a ship slot is available when speaking with Hayes. So it wasn't until I came back the second time and spoke with Commander Hayes (but this time with 2 empty slots) that I received the Skiffs, but only because I unknowingly failed to trigger it beforehand.

Also, I'm now considering using the Shipyard trick to remove another Stinger so I can receive all 3 Skiffs to add to my fleet… and not just for bonus RU's. Hmmm…

_________________
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” - Khan Noonien Singh


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