About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

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The Troglodyte
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:20 am

Elestan wrote:I'm curious to see how you'll explain this, as your time portal system can't help you if it and you are completely incinerated in an instant with no time to realize what a mistake you'd made. :)

Ok, well you guys asked for it…

Captain Zelnick - “Are you sure you know what you’re doing?”

Chief Engineer - “Take it easy, Captain! I’ve been fiddling with dangerous contraptions like these my whole life. You have nothing to worry about; I’m an expert. First thing I’ll do is open this small door which should lead to the--”

KA-BOOM!!!

(roll credits)
CAST (in order of appearance)

Captain Barton - The Troglodyte
Professor Farnsworth - The Troglodyte
Young Zelnick - The Troglodyte
Inspirational Janitor - The Troglodyte
Captain Zelnick - The Troglodyte
Ur-Quan Drone - The Troglodyte
Commander Hayes - The Troglodyte
Ilwrath Commander - The Troglodyte
Ilwrath Commander’s Dog - The Troglodyte
Captain Fwiffo - The Troglodyte
Slylandro - The Troglodyte
Master Greenish - The Troglodyte
Pkunk Captain - The Troglodyte
Commander Lopéz - The Troglodyte
Orz Captain *Heavy* - The Troglodyte
[etc… ]

Borgie wrote:I myself tried the Utwig Bomb on one of my playthroughs, and was underwhelmed with the result.

Yeah, why didn’t they throw in something of a little dramatic explosion or something. It was a little disappointing to simply see a flash of light, followed by the main menu screen. Actually, I was going to try to explain my interpretation of how our fearless hero is able to outwit the reaper’s grasp from such a devastating blast of destructive power, but I like Quasi’s explanation better.
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

krulle
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by krulle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:28 am

I actually liked it.
It's not as if you'd get to see an explosion develop and recognize the beauty of it.
On that distance, you'll have had more than enough unexpected extratime if your eye-nerves have been able to transmit the light to your brain, even more so if your brain was able to transmit the pain signals from your eyes into "I'm seeing a bright light".
It'll just be over. No extras.

The best rendition of an in-game death I ever saw.

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Borgie
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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Borgie » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:54 pm

krulle wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:28 am
I actually liked it.
It's not as if you'd get to see an explosion develop and recognize the beauty of it.
On that distance, you'll have had more than enough unexpected extratime if your eye-nerves have been able to transmit the light to your brain, even more so if your brain was able to transmit the pain signals from your eyes into "I'm seeing a bright light".
It'll just be over. No extras.

The best rendition of an in-game death I ever saw.
If you're at point-zero, you're absolutely right. Might not even see a flash if the explosion expands fast enough (I've never actually talked to anyone who encountered this, so I could be wrong). However, I just like to watch things explode. Call me a romantic.

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Quasispatial » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:13 pm

The Troglodyte wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:20 am
Borgie wrote:I myself tried the Utwig Bomb on one of my playthroughs, and was underwhelmed with the result.
Yeah, why didn’t they throw in something of a little dramatic explosion or something. It was a little disappointing to simply see a flash of light, followed by the main menu screen. Actually, I was going to try to explain my interpretation of how our fearless hero is able to outwit the reaper’s grasp from such a devastating blast of destructive power, but I like Quasi’s explanation better.
Well, glad you liked it.

On the topic of the explosion, for one, krulle has a point. You wouldn't get to see it coming like that. Furthermore, from a developer standpoint it feels completely sensible to not spend time or money on an advanced explosion animation. At least the option to activate it exists at all, and they were behind schedule as it was. It was the correct decision to make.
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:30 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Captain’s Log – March 9, 2158 - Starbase – Status: Docked

As we used the starmap to set course for home, we immediately noticed that the Utwig and Supox battle fleet have already began moving towards Ur-Quan/Kohr-Ah territory to engage them in battle. Who was that masked man?… and who was that vegetable sidekick with him? After reaching the end of the system and on into HyperSpace, we activated the Quasi Portal Spawner and proceeded back to base.

As soon as we docked with Starport, Hayes was eager to greet us:

Commander Hayes – “I am at your disposal, Captain.
I know you’re busy, but I’ve got some news.
A race of plant creatures called the Supox have
arrived in your absence, Captain.
They offered use of their ship designs and will
supply you as many starship captains as we require.
I, of course, accepted their offer immediately.
also
A small contingent of Utwig has visited.
After spending a few days setting up our
fabricators to build their Jugger starships…
…and providing us with a few capable commanders,
they departed.
Captain, if you continue to build such strong
alliances…
…we will surely win our battle against the Ur-Quan!”


It does make me wonder though, ‘How did the Supox and Utwig beat us here without the use of QuasiSpace?’ Anyway, then I asked about the bomb, to which Hayes said:

Commander Hayes – “The analysis reads as follows:
SUBJECT: Utwig Bomb Device.
DATA: Analysis has yielded little information about this
device…
…largely because of our technicians’ unwillingness to
open it, or even remove the bomb from your ship.
That aside, here’s what we know so far:
The device is correctly defined as a Bomb… one of
Enormous destructive potential…
…but it is not of Utwig origin -- nothing about it
relates to the technology we see in the Jugger ship.
We believe it to be of late Precursor origin…
…though it somewhat resembles certain Chenjesu
technology.
Its original function? -- Probably a planeteering tool
for dispersing unwanted moons.
SUMMARY: Unless there is a strong reason to do
otherwise…
DO NOT ACTIVATE THIS DEVICE! LEAVE IT ALONE!
Any experimentation should be conducted AT LEAST
12 ASTRONOMICAL UNITS
from this starbase…
…and preferably a bit further.
That’s the end of our scientists’ report.”


Sure! Now they tell me! After the meeting it came time for crew reassignment, to which I’ve added a Supox, an Utwig and a Druuge to the officers list. Now the only thing left to do is to figure out which one should be assigned to each of the 3 officer openings, which are Chief Botanist, Shield Control Officer and Brig Officer. Maybe I’ll just put their names in a hat and draw for assigned positions.

Seeking advice, I asked Commander Hayes what he’d do if he were in my shoes (since it’s been quite a while since I’d asked him that question) but at first, I got the runaround. He told me to carry over 150 units of fuel, which I don’t totally agree with his logic, considering the presence of our Quasi Portal, but nonetheless, I went ahead and put another tank on and went back and asked again, but since Drydock hadn’t filled up our flagship yet (I could’ve sworn I put in that requisition order!) he repeated himself by saying we needed more fuel.

After making sure we were fueled up, he recommended we needed a bigger crew (over 200) so I removed the useless cargo bay, a dynamo unit and a tracking device (1 of 3) and replaced them with more crew pods (and made sure to fill out the proper recruitment forms) and scheduled another meeting.

He said we needed to return the cargo bay, even though we’ll probably never run out of resource units, so we did, but then for some weird reason he said that although we had a good squadron of ships (probably because we replaced the both the Stinger and Scout, the Yellow Jacket and the Chikuma, and have replaced them with a Supox Blade, the H.M.S. Willow and an Utwig Jugger, the H.M.S. Wallow) but he still insisted that we needed to add another point-defense laser system, so just to make him happy I installed an additional one and presented Hayes the new-and-improved Vindicator:


Image


Commander Hayes – “Hmm… let’s see…
You have constructed a flagship of unrivaled power.
You have established several successful alliances
with alien races.
You’ve assembled a good-sized fleet of combat ships.
We must find a chink in the Ur-Quan’s armor --
-- a weakness that will allow us to focus our
strength in such a way…
…that we can destroy their entire empire in a single,
bold stroke.”


Then I said, “Hey! Commander! Next time just tell me how you think I should assemble my ship so you can cut to the chase!”

We are preparing to leave Starbase. We will set course for ooc ooc ooc. Captain out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ooc: Any guesses as to where is my next destination?
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Elestan » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:50 am

The Troglodyte wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:30 am
the new-and-improved Vindicator:
Notwithstanding the Commander's opinion, I think that you will find that configuration to have severe power shortages.

A tip on how your ship's energy regeneration is calculated:

Dynamos (to a max of 3) make your energy regeneration trigger more often, while furnaces increase the amount of each regeneration (with no upper limit). The optimal mix is to have all furnaces if you're using 1-4 slots, but 3 dynamos and the rest furnaces if you're using 5+ slots.

I would lose a point defense, a crew pod, and a cannon, and replace them with Dynamos, to get a better rate of fire.
Last edited by Elestan on Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:48 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Draxas » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:46 pm

I don't think ship construction is especially spoilery, so I'll give my opinion straight: Considering you have piles of RU, and still have never suffered a single crew loss outside of that unfortunate encounter with the Starrunner, I questions Hayes's judgement on this. My take: Only 1 point defense until is needed, since it's only there to deter Ur-Quan fighter launches. Additional units increase the damage the lasers do (if I recall correctly), but fighters will never be launched is the Ur-Quan detect a PDL, and even if they do, they only have 1 HP and can be destroyed easily by even the weakest PDL. So ditch the second PDL, drop at least 1 crew pod (maybe even 2) and the cargo bay, and possibly consider dropping the hellbore in position 3 (since it's unlikely to hit anything, even with 2 homing units, when you are facing toward your target). Replace the open slots (3-5) with dyanmos (3) and furnaces (the remainder of the open slots, if any). The logic for using dynamos over furnaces refers to the spoilered mechanics discussion above, which you should read if you haven't already. The result will be a lethally optimized warship that should obliterate any known resistance with the barest minimum of effort, and fuel should never be a concern unless you are ludicrously over-the-top trigger happy with your cannons.

As for your next destination, there is really only one choice. Well, perhaps 2, but I don't think Talana's going to be in the mood while you still have your mission to complete. Besides, now is your best chance, when the Kohr-Ah are soon to be quite distracted by a pair of invading fleets.

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by The Troglodyte » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:56 am

Elestan wrote:Just a non-spoiler comment: Notwithstanding the Commander's opinion, I think that you will find that configuration to have severe power shortages.

Yeah, Hayes obviously doesn’t really get it how it really is out here in space. The specs don’t always properly represent application. Nonetheless, it was intriguing to receive that little tidbit of praise and a quick end game reference after conforming to the commander’s wishes.

Elestan wrote:One tip on how your ship's energy regeneration is calculated (I don't think this is spoilery, since it's just a mechanical detail, but I'll tag it just in case you don't want to know):

I appreciate your precaution but you can lift your spoiler tags if you like; I’ve already seen underneath since I knew we were talking about ship and game mechanics and I actually really like discussing those items. I used to think that Shiva furnaces were simply a double-powered dynamo until somebody pointed out the difference.

Draxas wrote:My take: Only 1 point defense until is needed, since it's only there to deter Ur-Quan fighter launches. Additional units increase the damage the lasers do (if I recall correctly), but fighters will never be launched is the Ur-Quan detect a PDL, and even if they do, they only have 1 HP and can be destroyed easily by even the weakest PDL. So ditch the second PDL, drop at least 1 crew pod (maybe even 2) and the cargo bay, and possibly consider dropping the hellbore in position 3 (since it's unlikely to hit anything, even with 2 homing units, when you are facing toward your target). Replace the open slots (3-5) with dyanmos (3) and furnaces (the remainder of the open slots, if any). The logic for using dynamos over furnaces refers to the spoilered mechanics discussion above, which you should read if you haven't already. The result will be a lethally optimized warship that should obliterate any known resistance with the barest minimum of effort, and fuel should never be a concern unless you are ludicrously over-the-top trigger happy with your cannons.

I like it; clearly good advice all around. The extra fuel tank, crew pod, PDL and inclusion of a cargo bay are all indeed unnecessary as you pointed out, and your approach to weapons’ configuration is sound, especially for an offensive strategy centered around being able to regenerate quickly and take it to the target with a strong, steady stream of firepower. Like I said I like it, but consider this configuration, which is how I’ve converted it back, much to the chagrin of Hayes:


Image


This is what I consider the beefiest of beefcake configurations while still using at least one of every module (gotta do those element sampling records!). From my perspective, I have only one immediate and paramount goal when entering battle (especially when you account for my crew expenditure allotment of zero) and that is to overwhelm and bombard my opponent with as much firepower as possible to hopefully get it done in one attack.

Most of my battles while using the Vindicator last but mere seconds, and since I’ll immediately hop backwards in time as soon as we feel incursions, I’ve even started using an approach whereas I enter the battle field with both primary and secondary weapons’ functions on full blast for the entire skirmish. I know it may seem a little strange to come in firing on all cylinders, but trust me… it actually works! The forward array also subs as a shield when heading straight into the line of fire and the PDL ensures random meteorites never impede my position, plus the side and rear cannons also get a random hit (sometimes even the finishing blow) as I turn or retreat while still contributing to the shielding factor. I even changed my keyboard settings to use Z and X as fire and secondary buttons. Firing continuously has also yielded some interesting effects with certain aliens. (see also Ilwrath)

Draxas wrote:As for your next destination, there is really only one choice. Well, perhaps 2, but I don't think Talana's going to be in the mood while you still have your mission to complete. Besides, now is your best chance, when the Kohr-Ah are soon to be quite distracted by a pair of invading fleets.

But you still haven’t answered the question. No takers? I’ll give everybody a hint (as if I haven’t dropped one already, snicker snicker) Let’s just say that I went to my presumed destination but I was wrong. Last chance! This one is for all the marbles!!
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by Elestan » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:58 am

The Troglodyte wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:56 am
This is what I consider the beefiest of beefcake configurations while still using at least one of every module (gotta do those element sampling records!). From my perspective, I have only one immediate and paramount goal when entering battle (especially when you account for my crew expenditure allotment of zero) and that is to overwhelm and bombard my opponent with as much firepower as possible to hopefully get it done in one attack.
If you want to kill in one attack, drop the rear cannon, and add a third tracking system. If you do this, there will be a small zone in front of your ship where all five shots can hit a target, which is an instant-kill against any unshielded ship.

I prefer two cannons and two tracking systems, devoting the freed slots to energy generation. This requires two volleys to kill larger ships, but has a much higher rate of fire, so it's more tolerant of chance misses.

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Re: About to try to beat Star Control 2...no spoilers!

Post by krulle » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:07 pm

Once I have auto-aim, I dropped the front cannon.
The second slot gives two shots for the price of one in the front slot.
Yes, you need slightly more distance, but tat the point in time most enemies have less range than you, so it's preferable anway.

Also, you're so fast and maneuvrable by now, the heck one I also deemed too expensive, and the third slot cannon is really only useful in Ilwrath space...


Also: You're visiting your friends of Culture WhatIsItNow?
Those guys smoking where Earth forces are plastered with signs.
Image

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