The Orz Nemesis

This is the place to talk about all things Star Control.

Moderator: ZFP Peacekeepers

User avatar
Quasispatial
Yehat Revolutionist
Posts: 673
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:10 am
Location: Sweden

Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by Quasispatial » Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:29 pm

The Troglodyte wrote:
Quasispatial wrote:
The Troglodyte wrote:…the Orz must've had some kind of sneaky IDF trick up their sleeve to accomplish whatever they supposedly did to the Orz --
" Orz had a sneaky IDF trick to accomplish what they did to Orz"? You might want to correct that sentence.
New theory. They pulled a sneaky IDF trick… on themselves! Any takers? No? Ok, I fix it.
Quasispatial wrote:If you ask me, what you found on the Androsynth *adopted playground* suggests that the space-front was bypassed altogether in favor of something like a direct ground war, where the Guardian's advantages would be rendered irrelevant.
Death 999 wrote:For all we know, both versions could be correct...
Interesting, so I’m assuming there’s no concrete evidence to support either of these theories definitively? That’s fascinating. Perhaps when the Orz learned about the Androsynth and how to *slide* into our dimension, they did so using a military strategy in mind.

It reminds me of a Star Trek: TNG episode called “Contagion”, where the crew of the Enterprise discovers advanced technology left behind by a once powerful but now dead empire, which is capable of transporting people instantaneously over great distances, light years of travel accomplished by merely walking through a door!

What if the Orz technology allows them to do something similar when they travel between the two dimensions? They could appear on the surface and inside the buildings, their ships could appear out of nowhere, with Space Marines having already arrived a few moments earlier, inside each ship of the Guardian fleet!
Then again, they are not *many bubbles* like us *campers*. It is such a joke.
We cannot discuss every aspect of this, as you still lack certain... information. We can talk about Those Who Dwell Beyond more fully at a later date, once you have "moved sideways"...

...I hope that was suitably cryptic.
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

User avatar
The Troglodyte
Slylandro gasbags
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:16 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by The Troglodyte » Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:39 pm

Quasispatial wrote: If you ask me, what you found on the Androsynth *adopted playground* suggests that the space-front was bypassed altogether in favor of something like a direct ground war, where the Guardian's advantages would be rendered irrelevant.
Death 999 wrote:For all we know, both versions could be correct...
The Troglodyte wrote: Interesting, so I’m assuming there’s no concrete evidence to support either of these theories definitively? That’s fascinating. Perhaps when the Orz learned about the Androsynth and how to *slide* into our dimension, they did so using a military strategy in mind.

What if the Orz technology allows them to do something similar when they travel between the two dimensions? They could appear on the surface and inside the buildings, their ships could appear out of nowhere, with Space Marines having already arrived a few moments earlier, inside each ship of the Guardian fleet!
Then again, they are not *many bubbles* like us *campers*. It is such a joke.
We cannot discuss every aspect of this, as you still lack certain... information. We can talk about Those Who Dwell Beyond more fully at a later date, once you have "moved sideways"...
...I hope that was suitably cryptic.
Since I’m not really sure what you’re talking about, your usage of obscurity proved adequate. I look forward to when perhaps I see or *see* more -- then we’ll be able to theorize further.
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

User avatar
The Troglodyte
Slylandro gasbags
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:16 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by The Troglodyte » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:12 pm

Since I have recently encountered the Ilwrath during my explorations and have battled them on a few occasions, let’s see how the Orz fare against the Ilwrath fleet:
2 AWESOME CYBORG ORZ NEMESES (2 x 23 = 46 pts.)
VS.
14 AWESOME CYBORG ILWRATH AVENGERS (14 x 10 = 140 pts.)
ORZ GETS 2 KILLS WORTH 20 POINTS.

ANALYSIS: The first Nemesis kept its distance for some time before the Avenger was finally able to get within firing range and decloacked to attack. The Orz took a good deal of damage, but managed to get a single Space Marine onboard the Ilwrath ship, which down over half of the Avenger's crew before the spider security eventually subdued them. Then, the Ilwrath caught a nice gravity whip and finished off the first fish, but the final Orz was able to deploy three Space Marines who overran the Ilwrath’s crew, quickly destroying it within seconds. The third Avenger arrived and lived up to its name, avenging the previous fallen fighters with a fiery flame-flinging of fatality!
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

User avatar
Death 999
ZFP Peacekeeper
Posts: 1710
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:07 pm

Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by Death 999 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:39 am

This is one fight where the AI really doesn't know what it's doing. I suspect that even in PvP, Orz should be able to flawless an Ilwrath.

User avatar
The Troglodyte
Slylandro gasbags
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:16 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:10 pm

Death 999 wrote:This is one fight where the AI really doesn't know what it's doing. I suspect that even in PvP, Orz should be able to flawless an Ilwrath.
Well, how do you think you would perform in this matchup? How about 2 Death 999-controlled Orz Nemeses vs. 14 Awesome Cyborg Ilwrath Avengers? You know you want to! :)
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

User avatar
Death 999
ZFP Peacekeeper
Posts: 1710
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:07 pm

Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by Death 999 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:07 am

Yes, I do, but I just discovered that my copy of UQM crashes. I'll re-download to see if that fixes it. ... nope.

Apparently, the 0.7.0 pre-built executable does not get along with my system. Is it that I'm on macOS 10.11.4?

User avatar
The Troglodyte
Slylandro gasbags
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:16 pm
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by The Troglodyte » Mon May 09, 2016 2:57 pm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, Death 999, I sure hope you're able to remedy your complete lack of being able to play Star Control situation. I wish I could help... can anybody help? :?: In the meantime, I went ahead and gave the challenge my best shot in Death's stead.
2 The Troglodyte-controlled ORZ NEMESES (2 x 23 = 46 pts.)
VS.
14 AWESOME CYBORG ILWRATH AVENGERS (14 x 10 = 140 pts.)
The Troglodyte GETS 11 KILLS WORTH 110 POINTS!

ANALYSIS: Using the "Quasispatial B.U.T.T. Technique", I'd position the Howitzer Cannon to fire directly backwards while also implementing the "Death 999 Planetary Alignment Strategy" (mentioned in another thread), both of which worked mighty well, for a time anyway, whereas my Orz aggressor had the freedom to use multiple strafing attacks, which, as long as I had saved up enough energy, I could thrust the Orz vessel parallel to the Avenger's approximated location and fire a series of shots, once every quarter to half second, and my 1st Nemesis managed to score 9 successful kills before it was finally undone when I got overly-aggressive one too many times, followed by only 2 more from the 2nd, who unfortunately met up with an Ilwrath remotely-controlled asteroid which had been rigged with thrusters and was carefully positioned by those evil spiders to collide and obstruct with the frontal part of the Orz ship (that's what I'm assuming they did), preventing any escape from the Ilwrath's Hellfire Spout of flaming death! Man, I hate it when that happens!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

UltronUser25
Hunam adventurer
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 12:20 pm

Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by UltronUser25 » Tue May 10, 2016 12:03 am

In the main game, when I play through, I only ever bother with the Orz once... when I need the Taalo device. I find it far more efficient to blast my way through the 14 Orz guarding the planet and get all those lovely free RU's which go a long way to covering the cost of a nice hellbore cannon for my flagship.

How to beat the Orz Nemesis? The good old trusty Earthling Cruiser. I make use of the planet to get up a good speed, and if you are at range and the Orz launches 8 (maximum) marines, send two homing missiles up it's tailpipe and it's goodnight Orz.

I personally think the Orz is overpriced at 23 points - any ship that can deal with its marines and/or pot it from long range should win most fights against it. It's true the AI lets it down a bit but I don't think it's all the ship it's cracked up to be. For an equal point buy in Supermelee I'd much prefer a Yehat at my side.
The Ultron tells me I should wear my Mask of Toys for Bob Appreciation when playing Star Control 2.

User avatar
Ogo3142
Hunam adventurer
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:36 pm

Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by Ogo3142 » Tue May 10, 2016 2:40 am

The Orz is quite effective against a wide range of ships, many of them quite expensive, in PvP. The only problem it has is the Androsynth is so cheap that pretty much any fleet is going to have it, and any remotely competent player can easily beat even the most skilled Orz player with an Androsynth. Marines are useless against the comet form, and the Orz can't move fast enough to evade it or inflict enough damage in a short enough amount of time to destroy it as it approaches.
How to beat the Orz Nemesis? The good old trusty Earthling Cruiser.
That only works against the A.I. because it stupidly both refuses to launch marines and moves in a way that is easy to manipulate to keep it from closing its distance. Assuming you know how to use it right, a human Orz will easily beat a human Earthling.
How about 2 Death 999-controlled Orz Nemeses vs. 14 Awesome Cyborg Ilwrath Avengers? You know you want to!
As a general rule, any match against the A.I. is extremely easy. "Awesome Cyborg" is a misnomer; "Extremely Predictable and Stupid Cyborg" would be a better name for it, and the two below it should be called "Somehow Even Stupider Cyborg" and "Totally Clueless Cyborg that Doesn't Even Use All of its Weapons". There's not enough space for that, however.

A lot of matches where a competent human pilot would give you quite a run for your money or even completely devastate you are ridiculously easy against the A.I. Earthling vs Orz is one example. Here are some other examples:

- Chmmr vs. Druuge
- Chmmr vs. Chenjesu
- Spathi vs. Kohr-Ah
- Ur-Quan vs. Kohr-Ah
- Chenjesu vs. Kohr-Ah
- Thraddash vs. Kohr-Ah
- Yehat vs. Kohr-Ah (Noticing a pattern? Yeah, the A.I. is especially bad at using the Kohr-Ah.)
- Thraddash vs. Yehat
- Mycon vs. Pkunk
- Mycon vs. Arilou
- Mycon vs. Androsynth
- Mycon vs. Zoq-Fot-Pik
- Mycon vs. Slylandro
- Supox vs. Chmmr
- Utwig vs. Ur-Quan
- Slylandro vs. Androsynth
For an equal point buy in Supermelee I'd much prefer a Yehat at my side.
Yehat is probably generally worse than the Orz. It is just as easily countered as the Utwig (VUX), but it's not as effective or as easy to use as the Utwig for the most part. It just ends up being an all-around mediocre ship in terms of real performance. Stylistically cool, but mediocre in actual performance.

User avatar
Angelfish
Slylandro gasbags
Posts: 1632
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:10 pm

Re: The Orz Nemesis

Post by Angelfish » Thu May 12, 2016 8:00 am

could you all please stop discussing the Orz and IDF?
It might make them upset.

Post Reply