Star Control 1+2 plot holes

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Death 999
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Re: Star Control 1+2 plot holes

Post by Death 999 »

The Ur-Quan brought about the conditions under which their honor required it. It's halfway fair to say that.
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Re: Star Control 1+2 plot holes

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OK, plausible.
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Re: Star Control 1+2 plot holes

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1) Thraddash - The Thraddash were told to "guard the flank" by the Ur-Quan because they weren't strong enough to hold their own in the Great War. So why didn't the Ur-Quan uplift their technology, like they did with the Ilwrath, a far more evil and unstable race than the Thraddash?

IIRC: The "help" the Thraddash gave to the Kzerza Urquans was unwanted. Both Urquans shot at them. The still ended up hurting the Kohr-ah enough to slow the advance.


2) Earth's Radio - In SC2's manual, we read that the Ur-Quan learned of the planet Earth through our first radio broadcasts, and made plans to come to the Milky Way galaxy and enslave us. Isn't it a little weird that Ur-Quan didn't notice a whole bunch of other, FAR more advanced races in that region of space, like the Chenjensu, Mmrn-mmrn, Yehat, etc. and just payed attention to Earth? (unless they said "one more to conquer in that region")

Earth's radio waves would only go out as far as how many years radio has been in existence. About 200 light years, depending on what year the storyline is? 200 light years is not very far in the space scale of things.


3) Syreen Crew - In both SC manuals, we read that the Syreens use psychic manipulation to steal crew from hostile races and turn them into obedient crewmembers, thanks to their ships' psionic amplifiers. Isn't that mental domination, a.k.a. a form of slavery? How come the Alliance of *free* stars ever accepted this tactic of the Syreens? How better from the Ur-Quan are the Chenjensu if they let their allies have slaves?

In battle that's one thing, but afterwards I guess they're prisoners of war (assuming they kept prisoners). :)


4) Sofixti Breeding - In SC2, when Tanaka mates with the maidens, after a VERY short while, the first sofixti warrior-pilots emerge and join the action. Aside from the fact that it took about a year to do so (maybe less, I don't really recall), that is, a year to impregnate a female sofixti, give birth to siblings, have them grow into full fledged adults and receive fighter-pilot training, they also come into so many freaking numbers that the base is thriving with the furry fighters, reducing your cost to hire ship personnel. And all that, in less than a year.

That was the whole point to having Shofixtis in the alliance in SC1. Shofixti colonies grew faster, produced more, quicker.

5) The Ending - Another plot hole (I think) When you destroy the Sa-Matra, all of your allies defeat the Ur-Quan and their battle thralls, along with the Kohr-Ah. It seems a bit difficult to believe that an alliance with half of its members slave-shielded and the other half in less-than-stellar firepower (the Utwig are the only ones who I consider powerhouses in aircraft power, and they were crippled by their Kohr-Ah skirmishes) managed to overthrow two Supreme Battle Fleets (Kzer-za / Kohr-Ah) along with their lackeys. (I realize that most Hierarchy races crippled each other -- Thraddash/Ilwrath, Kzer-za/Kohr-Ah, but still ...)

The Chenjesu used to be the balance against the Urquan, now the more powerful(?) Chmmr are in that role. The Chmmr took down the slave shield around Earth in the ending sequence. I assume they did that for the other worlds and resumed leadership of the alliance. Originally the Chmmr were supposed to emerge years later than now, butl we used the sun device that sped up their creation. I am guessing they had planned to fight and defeat the Urquans with their new and improved design on that later date. Who knows, if we had not tampered with the process, maybe a more powerful Chmmr might have existed.
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Re: Star Control 1+2 plot holes

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The Ilwrath were uplifted because their single-minded determination, as well as their belief that the Ur-Quan were emissaries of Dogar and Kazon, made them psychologically excellent thralls. The Thraddash were a rabble.
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Re: Star Control 1+2 plot holes

Post by Nuclear »

I'm guessing that since the Syreen species had so few members left {Seeing how I wouldn't expect the space navy of a peaceful, laid back race to have that many people employed}, they were made an exception to mind controlling space bastards. They couldn't afford to use their own species as full time hit points ;)-smf
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Re: Star Control 1+2 plot holes

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zenzmurfy wrote:1) Thraddash - The Thraddash were told to "guard the flank" by the Ur-Quan because they weren't strong enough to hold their own in the Great War. So why didn't the Ur-Quan uplift their technology, like they did with the Ilwrath, a far more evil and unstable race than the Thraddash?

IIRC: The "help" the Thraddash gave to the Kzerza Urquans was unwanted. Both Urquans shot at them. The still ended up hurting the Kohr-ah enough to slow the advance.
As was mentioned, the Ilwrath were eager to serve the Ur-Quan, as they saw many opportunities to torment other sentients. The Thraddash, on the other hand, were quite happy to start thermonuclear war among themselves as soon as they were made battle thralls, and employ biological weapons among themselves when the Ur-Quan expressed their displeasure. Thralls that spend most of their time on infighting and subvert their masters' authority are of no use to an organized Hierarchy.

Though the Thraddash try to help their masters by attacking the Kohr-Ah, it has zero impact on the course of events. The Thraddash do not delay the Death March at all, only the Utwig - Supox assault does.
2) Earth's Radio - In SC2's manual, we read that the Ur-Quan learned of the planet Earth through our first radio broadcasts, and made plans to come to the Milky Way galaxy and enslave us. Isn't it a little weird that Ur-Quan didn't notice a whole bunch of other, FAR more advanced races in that region of space, like the Chenjensu, Mmrn-mmrn, Yehat, etc. and just payed attention to Earth? (unless they said "one more to conquer in that region")

Earth's radio waves would only go out as far as how many years radio has been in existence. About 200 light years, depending on what year the storyline is? 200 light years is not very far in the space scale of things.
Wasn't the radio thing in the SC1 manual? The story was less fleshed out then, I get the impression. Besides, as was discussed elsewhere at some point, analog radio is *very* noisy compared to digital and more advanced technologies. The constant, broadwave noise emanating from out planet would have been much more noticable than the Chenjesu's hyperwave broadcasts, for example.
3) Syreen Crew - In both SC manuals, we read that the Syreens use psychic manipulation to steal crew from hostile races and turn them into obedient crewmembers, thanks to their ships' psionic amplifiers. Isn't that mental domination, a.k.a. a form of slavery? How come the Alliance of *free* stars ever accepted this tactic of the Syreens? How better from the Ur-Quan are the Chenjensu if they let their allies have slaves?

In battle that's one thing, but afterwards I guess they're prisoners of war (assuming they kept prisoners). :)
As a counterpoint to this, the profile of the Syreen in the SC1 manual paints them as fairly sinister and as having associated with the Alliance out of mutual necessity and desperation. Apparently the dire situation was enough to get the other member races to overlook this practice.
5) The Ending - Another plot hole (I think) When you destroy the Sa-Matra, all of your allies defeat the Ur-Quan and their battle thralls, along with the Kohr-Ah. It seems a bit difficult to believe that an alliance with half of its members slave-shielded and the other half in less-than-stellar firepower (the Utwig are the only ones who I consider powerhouses in aircraft power, and they were crippled by their Kohr-Ah skirmishes) managed to overthrow two Supreme Battle Fleets (Kzer-za / Kohr-Ah) along with their lackeys. (I realize that most Hierarchy races crippled each other -- Thraddash/Ilwrath, Kzer-za/Kohr-Ah, but still ...)

The Chenjesu used to be the balance against the Urquan, now the more powerful(?) Chmmr are in that role. The Chmmr took down the slave shield around Earth in the ending sequence. I assume they did that for the other worlds and resumed leadership of the alliance. Originally the Chmmr were supposed to emerge years later than now, butl we used the sun device that sped up their creation. I am guessing they had planned to fight and defeat the Urquans with their new and improved design on that later date. Who knows, if we had not tampered with the process, maybe a more powerful Chmmr might have existed.
That's a fairly accurate analysis of the scenario. The Chmmr are an incomplete, imperfect, accelerated hybrid, and may have turned out quite differently had they been allowed to hybridize according to their desired process. Of course, considering the length of time they say that process would take, the Kohr-Ah would have effortlessly exterminated them well beforehand.

While many of the New Alliance member races may not have been in perfect fighting shape, neither were the two Ur-Quan fleets. The Kzer-Za were on the verge of defeat (or already defeated, depending on how long you take to finish the game), and both species were thrown into disarray and completely demoralized by both the destruction of the Sa-Matra and the Neo-Dnyarri revelation. Even if the Ur-Quan were to call upon their thralls for aid, the only ones to answer would be the VUX, Umgah, and the decimated Mycon fleets (if they bothered, considering the number of member races in the New Alliance, and the still murderous intentions of the Kohr-Ah). The New Alliance could win based on numbers and psychology alone.
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Re: Star Control 1+2 plot holes

Post by zenzmurfy »

Draxas wrote:
zenzmurfy wrote:Earth's radio waves would only go out as far as how many years radio has been in existence. About 200 light years, depending on what year the storyline is? 200 light years is not very far in the space scale of things.
Wasn't the radio thing in the SC1 manual? The story was less fleshed out then, I get the impression. Besides, as was discussed elsewhere at some point, analog radio is *very* noisy compared to digital and more advanced technologies. The constant, broadwave noise emanating from out planet would have been much more noticable than the Chenjesu's hyperwave broadcasts, for example.
My point was that radio wouldn't get very far in 200 years and I was assuming there were very few stars were within 200 light years. But checking online in regards to the real world, there are a LOT more stars in that 200 light year radius than I had thought. They estimate that are 200 stars in the 25 light year range alone, so I am guessing if the density doesn't change over distance there could be thousands of stars in a 200 light year radius.
Draxas wrote:
zenzmurfy wrote:In battle that's one thing, but afterwards I guess they're prisoners of war (assuming they kept prisoners). :)
As a counterpoint to this, the profile of the Syreen in the SC1 manual paints them as fairly sinister and as having associated with the Alliance out of mutual necessity and desperation. Apparently the dire situation was enough to get the other member races to overlook this practice.
I guess they HAD to soften the Syreen for SC2 because they're our hero's love interest. But going back to SC1 and into the game design, the name Syreen sounds like the mythical Siren. That would be a good reason they're sinister then. :) But I think the syreen design is related to the Archon game. I think it is Star Control's syreen is a version of Archon's banshee - a creature with life stealing attacks.
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Re: Star Control 1+2 plot holes

Post by Death 999 »

Keep in mind that the species profiles in the SC1 manual were each written by the opposition. They are all hostile descriptions. In particular, the Ur-Quan would not normally be well-disposed to a species that uses mind control.

As for radio, there may be coupling between subspace and radio (we can interact with subspace by use of normal matter, so this is not farfetched), in which case they'd hear that indirect signal.

The shofixti, yes it is a hole, one I already filled with my theory that they have racial memory, delivered either chemically or psychically.

And for the defeat of the 'Quan, we don't know how much disruption the Dnyarri was able to create. If he ordered Ur-Quan to sabotage their own ships and then moved on to others, it could have created massive havoc even without controlling every Ur-Quan in the quadrant at the same time.
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Re: Star Control 1+2 plot holes

Post by Alvarin »

About the radio signals - don't forget, that the stars in normal space and stars in hyperspace have no direct correlation - meaning that some star that is relatively close to us in normal space, and thus having the radio waves reached it already, might be in far corner of hyperspace map, where the 'Quans could pick it up.
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Re: Star Control 1+2 plot holes

Post by Alvarin »

Not really a plot hole, just something to concider- at the end of SC2, did the Avatar fleet remove the Spathiwa slaveshield to show Spathi they are not entirely safe even under it, or they'd respect Spathi privacy and leave them be?
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