The Syreen Penetrator

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Wasabe
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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by Wasabe » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:17 pm

Draxas wrote:
The Troglodyte wrote:Hmmm… how come they can’t use their song on the fighters? Are fighters somehow encased with some kind of specialized psychic shielding? Maybe they’re secured within the confines to the point there’s no way for them to escape, so the little thrall pilot figures, “Well, I’d really like to join the Syreen ship, but since I can’t leave, I may as well keep attacking!”
krulle wrote:I found the fact it can't "sing" to the fighters (and Orz *Go-Go*) very inconsistent.
It all makes sense within the framework of the game mechanics (which themselves only make sense for game balance, but whatever). Fighters and Marines are considered one man craft. The Song doesn't work on the last crew member aboard a ship for... reasons. Therefore, single crew craft are entirely immune to the effect.

As for the ship itself, I am terrible at melee so I don't really feel qualified to evaluate any ships seriously. I can't say I ever found a good use for them in the campaign, but that's not helped by the ordeal needed to recruit them yielding much more useful allies in the process, particularly the Chmmr.
Although I wish that the Marines can, if there's more than one, be sung upon and defeate the lone marine.

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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by Quasispatial » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:43 am

Wasabe wrote:Although I wish that the Marines can, if there's more than one, be sung upon and defeate the lone marine.
If only. Wonder if one could make them launch back out to hunt the Orz source, too... because that would make for a hilarious counter to dem Orz. Then again, considering just how much Orz the Orz are, maybe it doesn't make complete sense for them to be swayed in the first place...
"Sentient life. We are the Ur-Quan. Independence is intolerable. Blah, blah, blah." - the Spathi High Council, Star Control II.

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The Troglodyte
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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:10 pm

Wasabe wrote:Although I wish that the Marines can, if there's more than one, be sung upon and defeate the lone marine.
Welcome to the Star Control Discussion Board, Wasabe! An interesting notion of singing to the Orz Marines, although their actions demonstrate they are already lured to the Syreen ship, except they subtract from the Syreen crew as opposed to adding towards it!
Draxas wrote:It all makes sense within the framework of the game mechanics
Draxas wrote:The Song doesn't work on the last crew member aboard a ship for... reasons.
The game mechanics are sensible, yes, but it made me wonder if there’s a possibility for a “mental workaround”, if you will, so I’m going to throw out some possible theories to explain the inadequacy of the Syreen song vs. fighters and marines:

1. The Ur-Quan are already familiar with the Syreen’s battle tactics from the War, so maybe they have the fighter ships programmed during any battles with the Syreen to fly by itself and fire its weapons whenever in range, so all the fighter really needs is a warm body to sit in the seat. Hmmm… then why not just send endless amounts of unmanned fighters? Ok, maybe that’s not a sufficient answer…

2. Ok, well how about the Orz? Maybe their suits have specialized trans-dimensional material that prevents the hypnotic song from influencing them! Wait, but then why wouldn’t the Orz simply wear their suits at all times? Grrr.

3. Well, so maybe the song does work on the marines, but the Orz suits could be rigged to automatically battle on its own when they board the Penetrator and… oh, yeah… I think we already covered this with the Ur-Quan fighters. Darn.

4. Maybe the song cannot work against single targets, and it can only affect some within a big group (like as in a principle of mass hypnosis or nothing) which would explain why the entire crew (with maybe the exception of smaller crewed ships) doesn’t completely abandon ship, save for the captain. Yeah, another stretch, I know.

5. What if the hypnotic beam can only target a large object and is therefore the beam is sent like a laser, projected onto the targeted ship where it then is dispersed eratically upon the vessel? Wow, I think that almost makes sense!… yeah, almost.
Quasispatial wrote:Wonder if one could make them launch back out to hunt the Orz source, too... because that would make for a hilarious counter to dem Orz.
I love this idea! It should be put in a mod, plus I think it should include the Syreen captain’s voice shouting the “Go! Go!” command in the Orz’s stead. :lol:

Wouldn’t it also be funny for the song to cause the Ur-Quan fighters to dock with the Syreen ship, to which the Syreen captain could deploy with the “Launch fighters!” phrase in a sultry female voice?

Just for grins, I went ahead and reviewed the dialogue I’ve obtained during my talks with Talana, and I even found suitable dialogue for using the “Go! Go!” phrase without the need for voice-overs:

CAPTAIN ZELNICK – “So what happened to you at the end of the war?”

COMMANDER TALANA – “When we first met your people, we’d been wandering through the stars for almost seventy-five years, ever since the death of Syra… our home planet. We joined your Alliance, and I use the word ‘joined’ loosely, because we had no other choice. The VUX were raiding our slow Habitat columns, and we had nowhere else to go. We fought for survival, Captain. Nothing more. When your people on Earth were defeated, the Alliance just plain fell apart. The Yehat and Shofixti retreated to their native stars and didn’t want us to follow. The Arilou, those creepy little weasels, just plain bugged out – vanished… leaving us alone, with nowhere to go, smack in the path of the oncoming Ur-Quan Armada. What were we supposed to do? Fight? Two-thirds of our Habitat fleet was unarmed! Many aren’t even super-luminal. We were going to be annihilated if we resisted, and we knew it. When the Ur-Quan surrounded us and started giving orders that all ended with, ‘Or Die!’ we took them at face value. We obeyed. In exchange they gave us Gaia, the planet below. It’s a beautiful world, Captain. I wish I could show it to you. So don’t misunderstand me. We love our freedom as much as anybody else, but we’ve got a good life here, and we don’t want to lose it.”

Unfortunately, I couldn’t find an adequate substitute for the “Launch fighters!” part though, even though Talana does say the word ‘large’, which sounds close to ‘launch’, but she never say ‘fighters’ or anything close.
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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The Troglodyte
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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed May 09, 2018 2:40 pm

14 Awesome Setting Cyborg Syreen Penetrators (14 × 13 = 182 pts.)
Vs.
14 Awesome Setting Thraddash Torches
(14 × 10 = 140 pts.)
RESULTS: Syreen wins with 13 remaining Penetrators!
Approximate battle time: 8 minutes

ANALYSIS: The Thraddash seemed to accept that all of their crew with the exception of the captain was out the door on their way to the lovely blue maidens. The only question was how quickly would the Syreen achieve the final blow (get your mind out of the gutter fellas) on the Torch ship. Unfortunately, the 1st Penetrator ship found itself in the position of retreating, but never achieving enough distance from itself and the Thraddash ship, which used a few puffs of their Afterburner to keep up with the Syreen as they pelted her with their Rockets, until the Syreen realized they could just turn and fire, but still, the 1st ship fell to the 3rd Torch as a result. The 2nd had much better success, and by scooping up some Thraddash and quickly taking down the next 2 Torches, the Syreen gained enough crew to stay ahead in the head count for the remainder of the battle, and even achieved victory with more crew than the original allotment.
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by The Troglodyte » Mon May 14, 2018 1:42 pm

14 Awesome Cyborg Syreen Penetrators (14 × 13 = 182 pts.)
Vs.
14 Awesome Cyborg Ilwrath Avengers
(14 × 10 = 140 pts.)
RESULTS: Ilwrath wins with 9 remaining Avengers!
Approximate battle time: 5 minutes
Song usage: Poor
Cloak usage: Fair

ANALYSIS: The song works fine through the cloak, but the Syreen do a poor job of using it to their advantage. They seem to get impatient as they see little green dots emerge from the black void, as they turn to fight upon the invisible foe before causing most of the spider crew to evacuate, but the worst part is that instead of drifting away with their built-up momentum, they accelerate as they fire their weapon (which by the way is usually absorbed by the flames as the Ilwrath decloaks to attack) and then they all get burnt to a crisp as they are unable to avoid the wall of fire in time. A pity… I used to take much pleasure in my Star Control 1 days, growing my Syreen’s crew with hypnotized spiders before finishing off their mentally resistant captain. Best part was, during campaigns, if you defeated the last ship in a skirmish with a Syreen, you needn’t bother to retrieve the crew -- once the battle screen finished, it would display a message that said, “Syreen Retrieves Crew” and they would automatically be added to the Syreen’s crew complement; this also worked the same for Ur-Quan fighters.
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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