The Syreen Penetrator

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The Troglodyte
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The Syreen Penetrator

Post by The Troglodyte » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:52 pm

Here’s a wild idea: Let’s talk about the Syreen Penetrator!

What do you think about this ship? How did it get that design? Why is its body surface ribbed like that? It kind of reminds me of something, but I can’t quite put my finger on it. And why is it called the Penetrator?

Anyways, yes… I’m kidding of course and am fully aware of all of the sexual innuendo associated with the Syreen and their ship, but I have genuinely wondered why the game designers decided to insert the promiscuous overtones… conjecture is invited.

But really, how do you feel about the Syreen’s worthiness in battle? How good of a weapon is their song? Which ships are more vulnerable to the Penetrator? Which ships pose a serious threat to the Syreen vessel?

As most, if not all, people around here are already familiar with fact that I’m currently playing the game and have not completed it yet, so please spoiler mark any pertinent in-game materials.[/standard spoiler disclaimer remark]

I’m also sure that most of you are expecting me to begin my own analysis of pitting the cyborg Yehat Syreen fleet against the rest of the available ships, but that usually causes me to stop down my game for quite a while, and I feel like I’m on somewhat of a roll, so for now, I’m only going to be conducting simulations of potential battles that may be upcoming in my game -- in particular the Ur-Quan and the Kohr-Ah. Any additional insights in how best to handle the tougher foes like these would be greatly appreciated.[/redundancy]
Last edited by The Troglodyte on Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

Elestan
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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by Elestan » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:46 pm

The Troglodyte wrote:...the Ur-Quan and the Kohr-Ah. Any additional insights in how best to handle the tougher foes like these would be greatly appreciated.
Spathi can do fairly well against Kohr-Ah, but my favorite counters are ships you don't have yet.

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Death 999
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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by Death 999 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:47 am

Syreen can't suck Slylandro, which helps. And Earthling PD can kill sucked crew, which prevents them from being claimed, though obviously not a GREAT solution.

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The Troglodyte
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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:24 pm

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14 Awesome Cyborg Setting Syreen Penetrators (14 × 13 = 182 pts.)
Vs.
14 Awesome Cyborg Setting Ur-Quan Dreadnoughts
(14 × 30 = 420 pts.)
Ur-Quan wins with 13 remaining Dreadnoughts!
Approximate battle time: 4 minutes
Dreadnought fighters deployed: Lots
Syreen’s Song usage: Poor

ANALYSIS: As soon as the battle began, the Ur-Quan immediately unleashed 3 sets of fighters, and then they would release a few more pairs as they’d approach each Penetrator; they kept this tactic up for the entire duration of the fight, and it worked well, even to the point that direct attacks from the Dreadnought weren’t always necessary, since the haphazard Syreen’s flying skill (or lack thereof) often allowed for a fighter or two to get within weapon’s range, and once there, there was little the Penetrator ship could do about it. Hmmm… how come they can’t use their song on the fighters? Are fighters somehow encased with some kind of specialized psychic shielding? Maybe they’re secured within the confines to the point there’s no way for them to escape, so the little thrall pilot figures, “Well, I’d really like to join the Syreen ship, but since I can’t leave, I may as well keep attacking!” In fact, the Syreen’s song was sung very rarely, since it was way too difficult for the Penetrator vessel to get in close range while dodging a flurry of Fusion Bolts, and the Ur-Quan would pelt the Syreen ship to death and go rescue the few escapee stragglers as the next Penetrator arrived to meet to same end. One other odd note: I noticed at one point a Dreadnought retrieving some crew while attacking a Penetrator ship which was using the song at the same time of their destruction, and it caused the Ur-Quan crew slot to have green dots above black slots where was crew was simultaneously arriving and exiting, and then the green dots shifted down like little Tetris blocks spacebarred to the bottom.
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“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by krulle » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:50 pm

The Troglodyte wrote:and then the green dots shifted down like little Tetris blocks spacebarred to the bottom.
SPACE Tetris. Invented by FF and PR3....


Anyway.
The Syreen Penetrator is among the worst ships, IMHO. Especially their main weapon.
I found the fact it can't "sing" to the fighters (and Orz *Go-Go*) very inconsistent.
Actually, I also expected the boarded Orz marines to switch allegiance once you sing while being entered....
And then I thought, why do the Orz get sung lured at all? There is enough indication in-game that the Orz are not *multi-fingered*, but *one*.

There are some problems with the Syreen, and the translation of their background story into the combat mechanic.
Otherwise I liked their story very much. (Despite the innuendo, but like other SC2-races another horrible exaggeration of tropes.)

Also, your Opening Post ends with ("analysis of pitting the cyborg Yehat fleet"). It seems like you forgot to amend the copy of the Yehat post to change this part to "cyborg Syreen fleet".

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The Troglodyte
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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by The Troglodyte » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:58 pm

krulle wrote: Also, your Opening Post ends with ("analysis of pitting the cyborg Yehat fleet"). It seems like you forgot to amend the copy of the Yehat post to change this part to "cyborg Syreen fleet".
Oops! A copy/paste that I forgot to edit!
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Mormont
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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by Mormont » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:07 pm

Syreen is a good ship, at least in Melee. At 13 points, it does well against most others in its point range (undercosted Androsynth aside) and some higher. That said, online melee has shown the vanilla point values to have some problems. And if it gets going with a good crew stock, it can be pretty tough. It starts fragile, but that's what keeps it in check.
krulle wrote: Anyway.
The Syreen Penetrator is among the worst ships, IMHO. Especially their main weapon.
I found the fact it can't "sing" to the fighters (and Orz *Go-Go*) very inconsistent.
Would be unbalanced, especially since Ur-quan fighters are already weak enough.
There are some problems with the Syreen, and the translation of their background story into the combat mechanic.
Otherwise I liked their story very much. (Despite the innuendo, but like other SC2-races another horrible exaggeration of tropes.)
Their combat abilities are a carryover from SC1, where they were basically a one-dimensional joke/parody. SC2 didn't erase that, but gave them some good development on top of it.
Last edited by Mormont on Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Draxas
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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by Draxas » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:36 pm

The Troglodyte wrote:Hmmm… how come they can’t use their song on the fighters? Are fighters somehow encased with some kind of specialized psychic shielding? Maybe they’re secured within the confines to the point there’s no way for them to escape, so the little thrall pilot figures, “Well, I’d really like to join the Syreen ship, but since I can’t leave, I may as well keep attacking!”
krulle wrote:I found the fact it can't "sing" to the fighters (and Orz *Go-Go*) very inconsistent.
It all makes sense within the framework of the game mechanics (which themselves only make sense for game balance, but whatever). Fighters and Marines are considered one man craft. The Song doesn't work on the last crew member aboard a ship for... reasons. Therefore, single crew craft are entirely immune to the effect.

As for the ship itself, I am terrible at melee so I don't really feel qualified to evaluate any ships seriously. I can't say I ever found a good use for them in the campaign, but that's not helped by the ordeal needed to recruit them yielding much more useful allies in the process, particularly the Chmmr.

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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by The Troglodyte » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:37 pm

Mormont wrote: And if it gets going with a good crew stock, it can be pretty tough.
This was increasingly noticeable during SC1. During campaign missions, the Syreen were the only ones who were not allowed to recruit more crew from an Alliance colony. However, if you were fortunate enough to destroy an Hierarchy colony with a Syreen Penetrator present, before destroying said colony outright, the Syreen would use their abilities to fill their ship to the brim with brainwashed Hierarchy members:

Image

After that, the Syreen at full strength became a considerable force to be reckoned with. I even designed one of my own custom scenarios to include a swath of Syreen ships with scores of Hierarchy colonies ripe for the picking!
“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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Re: The Syreen Penetrator

Post by The Troglodyte » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:48 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14 Syreen Penetrators (14 × 13 = 182 pts.)
Vs.
14 Kohr-Ah Marauders
(14 × 30 = 420 pts.)
Kohr-Ah wins with 11 remaining Marauders!
Approximate battle time: 6 minutes
F.R.I.E.D. used causing destruction: 2
Syreen’s Song usage: Mediocre

ANALYSIS: If only the Syreen could’ve been more competent in how they handle they Penetrator vessel. Besides its penetrating being associated with other practices, the Penetrator would’ve done much better if they had made much more of a concerted effort to keep the pressure on! In other words, had they more decisively ‘penetrated’ the Spinning Blade minefield that the Kohr-Ah continuously dished out in rapid succession, they would’ve been in far better position to not only use their hypnotic music to lure the red-eyed black slugs from their ship, but continuing to remain assertive and actually retrieve the crew would’ve really benefitted them in the long run. But alas, that’s not how things worked out, because instead the Syreen remained skittish with each and any spinner remotely in the area (there was even one time there was a spinner all by itself and I swear the Syreen kept playing duck-duck-goose with the thing until it collided… I mean, seriously!) and even when they got close enough to use their song, they didn’t stick around long enough to take a shot and snatching up some crew, but were instead constantly trying to navigate their way through a moving minefield that diminished (or outright destroyed) the Syreen crew down to a few left, and once in range to use their weapon or mesmerizing song, then a quick plasma ring of death finished them off before they could sing the first note.
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“He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him! I’ll chase him ’round the moons of Nibia and ’round the Antares maelstrom and ’round Perdition’s flames before I give him up!” ― Khan Noonien Singh

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